7 ms·

Talent is bullshit

31 points by apologetic 18y ago

swombat 18y ago
Talent is not bullshit. It's just not enough to either make you succeed or make you fail. You can't argue with the fact that some people are naturally talented at certain things. Whether that comes through practice or genetics depends on which things you're talking about (I'd say that being a talented sportsman takes genetics as well as huge amounts of practice, and being tone-deaf precludes you from becoming a talented composer no matter how much you practice), but both are factors. Talent without practice is nothing. Practice without talent is more than nothing. But that doesn't negate the existence of talent.
- sho 18y ago
  Exactly right. There is an undeniable genetic predisposition towards some skills. I'm sure everyone has any number of personal anecdotes they can tell. Anecdotes by themselves don't make something true, sure, but in large enough quantities they sure suggest it. Play my friend any song twice and he'll give you a passable piano rendition straight away. His sister couldn't even whistle the tune. But she knows 6 languages and learns new ones for fun. He says learning a language is like trying to force a lego brick into his brain through his forehead. Everyone knows some situation like this. Talent is often obvious from birth and extremely potent. As you say, talent without practise - and there's too much of that - is nothing. Many talented people become lazy and compacent and never realise their full potential. Many untalented people attain mastery of an art through sheer determination and effort. But geeze, talent exists all right.
  - wepihapg 18y ago
    Do you have any advice on how to learn to play by ear? I can play piano well, but figuring out a song from a recording is very difficult for me.
    - sho 18y ago
      "My friend" says that he has no idea. It just comes naturally and he's been able to do it since age 3. Sorry ; )
    - trjordan 18y ago
      Without talent, you must practice. Take a song you don't know how to play, and start to figure it out from a recording. Once you've mastered that song, pick another one. There's no secret to any of this. I've have no natural talent for music, but I put in the hours. When I was 16, I was cut from my high school musical for my inability to sing back a note played on the piano. I took voice lessons, got a few chorus roles, and kept working at it. Over the course of college, I got a few friends together and practiced a few hours a week. By the time I got to senior year of college, I got the lead in the play and was performing solos with my a capella group. These days, I sing with a barbershop quartet - understanding the harmonies there, let alone reproducing them, was unthinkable 5 years ago. If you don't have the talent, you've got to work at it. It will pay off, I promise.
      - jerf 18y ago
        I would add a few more points: I forget the exact term, but be sure to engage in purposeful practice, always challenging yourself with a song just out of your reach. Start as easy as necessary and work up. It would be helpful to do some songs that you can get the full score for, so you can do concrete validation of your correctness. However, be sure that they are the full, true score; grab a Guitar book of Beatles songs, for instance, and they're likely to be simplified in a way that won't help on this task.
        unalone 18y ago
        This right here is worth repeating. Never pick something you're certain you can do. Go for things just out of your reach. Pick things that you're going to have to strain to do. Do this again and again, and every time you get a bit better. Occasionally, attempt something far beyond your reach, just to remind yourself of what you're striving for.
    - 18y ago
  - apologetic 18y ago
    There is an explicit reason for why I called my blog 'Apologetic Writing' (it's also explicitly not within the context itself...). Of course, I can see there is such a thing as talent, but I rather define it as a group of human perks, that you are either born with, or have early developed due to some events, that are boosted mostly by realizing their existence and overall meaning, and then sharpening every each and one of them with a lot of practice. I have a few "talents", or as I love to call them, groups of perks uniformly supporting an adjacent field of mastery. Mathematics, algorithmic thinking, art and linguistics. None of those develop seriously over time by themselves if I don't put any time onto the subject. I have proof of course. In the past year, after living my life with the knowledge that I can sketch OK, and even better than most people I know. I have lifted the skill by practicing more often than usually (on a daily basis I'd draw between 3-6 quick pencil sketches). Now, withdrawing a sketch from a couple of years ago and comparing it to one I would quickly sketch in less than 10 minutes, I can tell that I got better by much. "Many untalented people attain mastery of an art through sheer determination and effort. But geeze, talent exists all right." - I'd rather see more of those, than of the opposite (talented, but extremely lazy). One more thing, I thank you all for taking your precious time and reading my blog. p.s - my gallery, if anyone wondered whether I can really draw or not, or is interested in monitoring my progress ;) http://case0thrives.deviantart.com/ http://case0thrives.deviantart.com/
    - unalone 18y ago
      Talent is often indicative of interest level. If you like something enough to do it a lot, you'll pick up skill much faster. Arguably, that's because when you innately understand the concepts behind something you're more interested in continuing.
jupiter 18y ago
I guess the author knows exactly that talent exists but wants to point out that the word is used often in situations where diligence was more appropriate.
- apologetic 18y ago
  That might sum it all up in a shorter way.
- nandemo 18y ago
  I'm tired of articles and blog posts like that. They give a strawman-ish definition of (say) "expert" and then claim that "experts don't exist" or "we don't need experts".
cloudhead 18y ago
I'm sorry he thinks that way, because it's completely wrong. People aren't born equal...
jfarmer 18y ago
Talent is the principal, practice is the interest rate.
- electromagnetic 18y ago
  Essentially, an extremely talented person starts out with $1,000,000; however, if they never practice it never becomes worth more than it is. Yet a relatively untalented person may start out with like $1,000, but if they practice for hours a day every day for years they'll be worth a lot more than a million dollars. When I was about 6 my teacher told my parents that she suspected I was dyslexic. At 17 I got hired as a video game and movie reviewer. At about 19 I got a couple of short stories published and currently I'm working on a novel I hope to get published. I don't believe I was ever particularly talented at writing, I'm a creative person, but it's never been one of those 'click' things, I've just wanted it all my life. Give me a hammer or a saw and I'll build you anything, I even worked as an electrician for a couple of years. I've put in stairs, I can plaster a wall as well as drywall, I can wire your house, plumb it and give you a gas line. When it comes to hands on work I can do virtually anything, but I've never had this ability with words or writing and I believe this lack of ability always made me try harder with it. Now I don't want to do anything other than write for a living; although I wouldn't mind taking Electrical Engineering, either for work purposes or for building a giant robot army to take over the world... you know which ever pays more.
Allocator2008 18y ago
This question of talent can be rephrased in another way: are humans the product of genetic selfish replicators alone? The answer seems to be no, that memetic replication has a role as well. If only genes were the factors in what makes a person "talented", then indeed, people could consider "talent" as the predictive factor in somebody's success. But we are not only gene replicators, we are also meme replicators, and therefore, our innate "talent" is not a sole predictor of our success. I could be for example genetically pre-disposed towards intelligence, but then if my mind becomes hijacked by one of the various religious memes out there, instead of using my innate, genetic intelligence for the benefit of man, I could for example use that intelligence towards constructing a dirty bomb, in slavish servitude to the meme of religious fanaticism which has infected me. So is "talent" bullshit? Yes and no. To the extent that we are determined by genes, no, talent is very real. To the extent that memes play a role however, talent can either be increased, decreased, or misdirected towards destructive ends.
- apologetic 18y ago
  Thank you for the insight. I never claimed my blog to be perfect and invulnerable to attacks from different fields of view. You show an interesting attitude towards the problem I raised here. I consider religion to be pretty much the waste of time, but let us not indulge in this personality representing discussion that could lead to already fought flame wars. Could intelligence directly relate to understanding of what is wrong (by understanding how it affects others) and what is right ? Because if I'm intelligent, and yet I'm a fanatic of something, and I believe that supporting that cause by killing off people is the right choice - am I still an intelligent being ? Or just crazy ? Do my genes indicate that I should be a madman then with the ability to understand technicalities of constructing a bomb and the chemistry behind it?
xiaoma 18y ago
The article is bullshit. Not a single actor with Danny Devito's height and hairline earns half as much as Brad Pitt. Nor are there any Olympic medalist swimmers with small hands and feet. I can't think of any Fortune 500 members with Down Syndrome, either.
proee 18y ago
Talent is what fuels the hit show "American Idol." People enjoy watching the contestants try and fail because they have no talent. It's a sad reality really... Sorry, but the decision was made when you were born. You either sing like a star, or you suck dawg!
trapper 18y ago
Explain usain bolt.
lionhearted 18y ago
Hey Apologetic - interesting sentiment mate. Two thoughts on writing: 1. You've got some really interesting points, but there's some rambling around them. Edit like your life depends on it - cut words, cut words, cut tangential themes, cut sentences, cut, cut, cut. Favor less over more. Kill the weakest links in your piece. They won't be pissed. You started with: "* Thesis presentation * Examples * Reasons explaining why * Summary Hello. I'll start off by stating that one of my pets died a couple of days ago, and I'm probably sucking half the energy required to write this blog post from the recent event's anguish." Cool - lots of great writers start with just whatever to get going, and the good stuff follows. Then remember to cut it in the first round of edits, otherwise you risk losing a lot of readers out of the gate. 2. The more you use profanity, the less effective it gets. If you hold your profanity in reserve, you can really drive a sentiment home when you need to.

31 points by apologetic 18y ago

Talent is not bullshit. It's just not enough to either make you succeed or make you fail. You can't argue with the fact that some people are naturally talented at certain things. Whether that comes through practice or genetics depends on which things you're talking about (I'd say that being a talented sportsman takes genetics as well as huge amounts of practice, and being tone-deaf precludes you from becoming a talented composer no matter how much you practice), but both are factors. Talent without practice is nothing. Practice without talent is more than nothing. But that doesn't negate the existence of talent.

sho 18y ago
Exactly right. There is an undeniable genetic predisposition towards some skills. I'm sure everyone has any number of personal anecdotes they can tell. Anecdotes by themselves don't make something true, sure, but in large enough quantities they sure suggest it. Play my friend any song twice and he'll give you a passable piano rendition straight away. His sister couldn't even whistle the tune. But she knows 6 languages and learns new ones for fun. He says learning a language is like trying to force a lego brick into his brain through his forehead. Everyone knows some situation like this. Talent is often obvious from birth and extremely potent. As you say, talent without practise - and there's too much of that - is nothing. Many talented people become lazy and compacent and never realise their full potential. Many untalented people attain mastery of an art through sheer determination and effort. But geeze, talent exists all right.
- wepihapg 18y ago
  Do you have any advice on how to learn to play by ear? I can play piano well, but figuring out a song from a recording is very difficult for me.
  - sho 18y ago
    "My friend" says that he has no idea. It just comes naturally and he's been able to do it since age 3. Sorry ; )
  - trjordan 18y ago
    Without talent, you must practice. Take a song you don't know how to play, and start to figure it out from a recording. Once you've mastered that song, pick another one. There's no secret to any of this. I've have no natural talent for music, but I put in the hours. When I was 16, I was cut from my high school musical for my inability to sing back a note played on the piano. I took voice lessons, got a few chorus roles, and kept working at it. Over the course of college, I got a few friends together and practiced a few hours a week. By the time I got to senior year of college, I got the lead in the play and was performing solos with my a capella group. These days, I sing with a barbershop quartet - understanding the harmonies there, let alone reproducing them, was unthinkable 5 years ago. If you don't have the talent, you've got to work at it. It will pay off, I promise.
    - jerf 18y ago
      I would add a few more points: I forget the exact term, but be sure to engage in purposeful practice, always challenging yourself with a song just out of your reach. Start as easy as necessary and work up. It would be helpful to do some songs that you can get the full score for, so you can do concrete validation of your correctness. However, be sure that they are the full, true score; grab a Guitar book of Beatles songs, for instance, and they're likely to be simplified in a way that won't help on this task.
      - unalone 18y ago
        This right here is worth repeating. Never pick something you're certain you can do. Go for things just out of your reach. Pick things that you're going to have to strain to do. Do this again and again, and every time you get a bit better. Occasionally, attempt something far beyond your reach, just to remind yourself of what you're striving for.
  - 18y ago
- apologetic 18y ago
  There is an explicit reason for why I called my blog 'Apologetic Writing' (it's also explicitly not within the context itself...). Of course, I can see there is such a thing as talent, but I rather define it as a group of human perks, that you are either born with, or have early developed due to some events, that are boosted mostly by realizing their existence and overall meaning, and then sharpening every each and one of them with a lot of practice. I have a few "talents", or as I love to call them, groups of perks uniformly supporting an adjacent field of mastery. Mathematics, algorithmic thinking, art and linguistics. None of those develop seriously over time by themselves if I don't put any time onto the subject. I have proof of course. In the past year, after living my life with the knowledge that I can sketch OK, and even better than most people I know. I have lifted the skill by practicing more often than usually (on a daily basis I'd draw between 3-6 quick pencil sketches). Now, withdrawing a sketch from a couple of years ago and comparing it to one I would quickly sketch in less than 10 minutes, I can tell that I got better by much. "Many untalented people attain mastery of an art through sheer determination and effort. But geeze, talent exists all right." - I'd rather see more of those, than of the opposite (talented, but extremely lazy). One more thing, I thank you all for taking your precious time and reading my blog. p.s - my gallery, if anyone wondered whether I can really draw or not, or is interested in monitoring my progress ;) http://case0thrives.deviantart.com/ http://case0thrives.deviantart.com/
  - unalone 18y ago
    Talent is often indicative of interest level. If you like something enough to do it a lot, you'll pick up skill much faster. Arguably, that's because when you innately understand the concepts behind something you're more interested in continuing.

jupiter 18y ago

I guess the author knows exactly that talent exists but wants to point out that the word is used often in situations where diligence was more appropriate.

apologetic 18y ago
That might sum it all up in a shorter way.
nandemo 18y ago
I'm tired of articles and blog posts like that. They give a strawman-ish definition of (say) "expert" and then claim that "experts don't exist" or "we don't need experts".

cloudhead 18y ago

I'm sorry he thinks that way, because it's completely wrong. People aren't born equal...

jfarmer 18y ago

Talent is the principal, practice is the interest rate.

electromagnetic 18y ago
Essentially, an extremely talented person starts out with $1,000,000; however, if they never practice it never becomes worth more than it is. Yet a relatively untalented person may start out with like $1,000, but if they practice for hours a day every day for years they'll be worth a lot more than a million dollars. When I was about 6 my teacher told my parents that she suspected I was dyslexic. At 17 I got hired as a video game and movie reviewer. At about 19 I got a couple of short stories published and currently I'm working on a novel I hope to get published. I don't believe I was ever particularly talented at writing, I'm a creative person, but it's never been one of those 'click' things, I've just wanted it all my life. Give me a hammer or a saw and I'll build you anything, I even worked as an electrician for a couple of years. I've put in stairs, I can plaster a wall as well as drywall, I can wire your house, plumb it and give you a gas line. When it comes to hands on work I can do virtually anything, but I've never had this ability with words or writing and I believe this lack of ability always made me try harder with it. Now I don't want to do anything other than write for a living; although I wouldn't mind taking Electrical Engineering, either for work purposes or for building a giant robot army to take over the world... you know which ever pays more.

Allocator2008 18y ago

This question of talent can be rephrased in another way: are humans the product of genetic selfish replicators alone? The answer seems to be no, that memetic replication has a role as well. If only genes were the factors in what makes a person "talented", then indeed, people could consider "talent" as the predictive factor in somebody's success. But we are not only gene replicators, we are also meme replicators, and therefore, our innate "talent" is not a sole predictor of our success. I could be for example genetically pre-disposed towards intelligence, but then if my mind becomes hijacked by one of the various religious memes out there, instead of using my innate, genetic intelligence for the benefit of man, I could for example use that intelligence towards constructing a dirty bomb, in slavish servitude to the meme of religious fanaticism which has infected me. So is "talent" bullshit? Yes and no. To the extent that we are determined by genes, no, talent is very real. To the extent that memes play a role however, talent can either be increased, decreased, or misdirected towards destructive ends.

apologetic 18y ago
Thank you for the insight. I never claimed my blog to be perfect and invulnerable to attacks from different fields of view. You show an interesting attitude towards the problem I raised here. I consider religion to be pretty much the waste of time, but let us not indulge in this personality representing discussion that could lead to already fought flame wars. Could intelligence directly relate to understanding of what is wrong (by understanding how it affects others) and what is right ? Because if I'm intelligent, and yet I'm a fanatic of something, and I believe that supporting that cause by killing off people is the right choice - am I still an intelligent being ? Or just crazy ? Do my genes indicate that I should be a madman then with the ability to understand technicalities of constructing a bomb and the chemistry behind it?

xiaoma 18y ago

The article is bullshit. Not a single actor with Danny Devito's height and hairline earns half as much as Brad Pitt. Nor are there any Olympic medalist swimmers with small hands and feet. I can't think of any Fortune 500 members with Down Syndrome, either.

proee 18y ago

Talent is what fuels the hit show "American Idol." People enjoy watching the contestants try and fail because they have no talent. It's a sad reality really... Sorry, but the decision was made when you were born. You either sing like a star, or you suck dawg!

trapper 18y ago

Explain usain bolt.

lionhearted 18y ago

Hey Apologetic - interesting sentiment mate. Two thoughts on writing: 1. You've got some really interesting points, but there's some rambling around them. Edit like your life depends on it - cut words, cut words, cut tangential themes, cut sentences, cut, cut, cut. Favor less over more. Kill the weakest links in your piece. They won't be pissed. You started with: "* Thesis presentation * Examples * Reasons explaining why * Summary Hello. I'll start off by stating that one of my pets died a couple of days ago, and I'm probably sucking half the energy required to write this blog post from the recent event's anguish." Cool - lots of great writers start with just whatever to get going, and the good stuff follows. Then remember to cut it in the first round of edits, otherwise you risk losing a lot of readers out of the gate. 2. The more you use profanity, the less effective it gets. If you hold your profanity in reserve, you can really drive a sentiment home when you need to.