10 ms·
I'm Done with Mullvad
- lillecarl 2mo ago[flagged]
- fabian2k 2mo agoI don't know enough about this specific party, but a quick look at the Wikipedia page about them shows this quote, which to me does seem to suggest that the label is defensible: > In a podcast segment about immigration and deportations Allard stated his opinion and said that "They will also be forced to leave, even if they are born in Sweden, because they have no natural connection to Sweden. They are not Swedish." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%96rebro_Party https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%96rebro_Party
- muldvarp 2mo agoSweden doesn't appear to have birthright citizenship (jus soli), so people whose only connection to Sweden is being born there are in fact not swedish. If this is your definition of ethnonationalism, then most of the world is already ethnonationalist.
- g-b-r 2mo agoNot having birthright citizenship doesn't mean that you can't acquire citizenship.
- g-b-r 2mo ago> If this is your definition of ethnonationalism, then most of the world is already ethnonationalist. The user you were replying to wasn't claiming that you're an ethno-nationalist state if you don't have birthright citizenship, or an ethno-naionalist if you're against it.
- muldvarp 2mo agoWhat are they claiming then? Allard says that people whose only connection to Sweden is being born there are not Swedish (which is correct) and that they would have to leave. I don't see the connection to ethnonationalism here.
- g-b-r 2mo agoThe quote without context is absolutely ethno-nationalistic (but I've been told that there's a context).
- nopromisessir 2mo agoAgree and so sick of this being thrown around. Such an overreaction and mischaracterization. Being unable to evaluate an anti immigration party without labeling them ethnonationist shows a pretty glaring blind spot.
- inigyou 2mo agoThey said non-Swedish people would be expelled from the country. How isn't that ethnonationalist?
- dijit 2mo agoI am also an immigrant to Sweden. And, to be fair, I also haven't integrated perfectly well (I scarcely speak Swedish)- but I pay a lot of taxes and I don't do any crimes. I would suspect that the Orebro party doesn't really have a problem with me, though they would start to have an issue if I started bringing my home countries problems with me, or if I started trying to bend society to my will- or if I never paid any taxes and had to live my entire life on welfare... or if I committed crimes. I can't say for sure, since the only thing I know about the party itself is learning about it from this incident, but based on my conversations with conservative SD supporting Swedes, this is probably the case. If so, then unfortunately, I (and many other immigrants, especially those from the Balkans in the 90s) likely support this idea.
- Gud 2mo agoI am a migrant FROM Sweden(to Switzerland) and the Swedes absolutely want you to speak Swedish. At least this has been my experience living in Switzerland. They prefer that I speak broken German rather than English. Even many who speak English flawlessly. But you will be tolerated if you are overall a net contributor, that is right.
- dijit 2mo agoYes, that's fair, I think tolerated is the right word. I'm tolerated for not speaking Swedish, but I would not be tolerated if I was a criminal, went directly against Swedish values loudly or was a net drain on society in some other way.
- znpy 2mo agoYeah but it's an established playbook nowadays. You go against the established leftist narrative? You get called all the possible names: ethnonationalist, fascist, nazist, racist, whatever. It got stale and it's giving a lot of people fatigue, even more so considering that we all lived in a shared reality and we can all see that the narrative around immigration does not survive the basic reality checks.
- ayhanfuat 2mo agoPrevious discussion: The CEO of Mullvad is the main financer of the Swedish Örebro party 695 points | 1784 comments (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48717469 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48717469) It also has a comment from the other founder: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48696800 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48696800
- CommanderData 2mo agoWelp I'll be moving from Mullvad. Shame they have a no friction service.
- Leonard_of_Q 2mo ago[flagged]
- inigyou 2mo agoBecause a percentage of the money you pay to Mullvad goes to support racial purity drives? It's the same reason you don't buy Bud Light.
- sufficientsoup 2mo agoNow hold on, there's plenty of reasons to not buy Bud Light.
- inigyou 2mo agoPlenty of people were buying it before it has a marketing association with transgenderism, and then they suddenly stopped because they didn't want to give any money to transgender causes.
- CommanderData 2mo agoYes I don't support racism in anyway.
- charcircuit 2mo ago>Mullvad discusses its ideals of “a free and open society,” A free and open society does not mean that law and order cannot exist. Nor does it mean that immigration laws cannot be created or enforced.
- fabian2k 2mo agoThere's a huge difference between enforcing reasonable immigration laws and what some right-wing parties are proposing. I don't know enough about this specific party, but you'll find similar ones in other countries. And remigration is in the end about deporting even legal and well integrated immigrants.
- charcircuit 2mo agoFreedom doesn't mean just what you think is acceptable. If a society feels like they let too many people into the country they have the freedom to undo it.
- cinntaile 2mo agoI guess we're all just using our own definition of freedom. It'll make reasonable discussions incredibly difficult however.
- charcircuit 2mo agoTo make things clear my definition of a free society is one where the society itself governs how it is run. The opposite of this is when another country, organization, or person is dictating how it is run overriding how the society wants to do things.
- t0bia_s 2mo agoDo you consider governance of majority to minority as a part of free society?
- muldvarp 2mo ago> Some key issues for the Örebro Party locally include strong secularism, a 30-hour workweek with retained pay, lowered wages for politicians, expanded social housing, abolishing preschool-fees, making public transport free of charge, ending taxpayer funding of what it sees as wasteful sculptures, monuments and art and introducing free dental care. Nationally the party has set out large-scale remigration, closing the Swedish borders to immigration, a stricter assimilation policy and ending taxes on energy and fuel as some of its key issues. Seems very sensible.
- lapkaaaa 2mo agoThat sounds "We're for everything good and against everything bad so vote for us pls"
- streetfighter64 2mo agoUh, isn't that exactly what you'd want out of a political party? I wouldn't vote for them because I disagree with a few of their points, but if you think all of their policies are good and you trust them to uphold them, then go vote for them?
- inigyou 2mo agoYou want them to know what they can actually achieve and promise that, not promise the world.
- streetfighter64 2mo ago> know what they can actually achieve and promise that Show me a single party that actually keeps their (concrete) promises and I'll show you a flying pig. In any case, you're somehow confusing a list of "key issues" with a list of actual promises. A 30-hour workweek being a key issue, doesn't mean that the party promises they'll achieve that the next term, even if they magically would get 100% of the votes. It means it's a long term goal that they believe in and are working towards. Isn't that obvious to anyone with even a passing issue in politics?
- m00dy 2mo agoI don’t use VPNs anymore. They feel pointless now since almost every website has antibot systems, and VPN IP ranges are much easier to flag than residential proxies.
- squishington 2mo agoI use a VPN because I still seed 10s of thousands of torrents and have a static IP address. I don't want the swarm to see that. Most of them are from private sites I trust, but some from private sites that have a huge membership I'm not sure about. I have a lot of movies and music that isn't available anywhere else and archiving that is important to me. Kept my music collection from what.cd and a lot of that you can't even buy on discogs.
- m00dy 2mo ago[dead]
- kmfrk 2mo agoIt's not great as a Mullvad user: YouTube constantly complains and also shadowbans some of my livestreaming functionality, and my X account has now been flagged as a bot, which requires me to download the app and verify myself in ways that they won't explain. And X is practically useless without a user, much like Instagram. TikTok also shadowbans you with reduced functionality. Twitch and Discord meanwhile feel remarkably unaffected compared to their counterparts. VPNs in the aftermath of FireSheep[1] before we got proper HTTPS, but it's not likely to be the ban or censorship circumvention tool we think they are. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firesheep https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firesheep
- dijit 2mo ago[flagged]
- inigyou 2mo agoYou tend to trust people because they have strong opinions even if those opinions are completely psychotic? Does that mean you would have trusted the German dictator if you were alive back then?
- dijit 2mo ago1) I wasn't alive. 2) My parents weren't alive 3) my grandparents weren't alive. 4) he was running a country, not a company thats entire purpose was to protect peoples privacy 5) had people taken privacy seriously, there would be a lot less dead people in Europe, famously the dutch kept meticulous records of their populations which is part of why the Nazi's were so effective.
- inigyou 2mo agoIf you care about privacy why do you support the political party that wants to use mass surveillance and AI processing to find the "imposter" non-Swedish people in Sweden?
- dijit 2mo agoI assume you're talking about the co-founder, because while I live in Sweden (and hold a Swedish passport, despite not being born here) - I do not support populist parties such as the Örebro party. (They aren't even a thing as far as I can tell in Malmö, where I live.) I am one of the imposter people you reference. That said, I don't actually see much to corroborate what you're saying either, they don't seem to be implying use of AI and mass surveillance. I think you've decided something you don't like is bad and now are trying to tie other things you don't like to it?
- inigyou 2mo ago
- jb1991 2mo ago[flagged]
- cinntaile 2mo agoMore than any other country... I'm not too sure about that, there are a lot of countries on this planet. What period are you looking at? I assume relative numbers. I'm also skeptical about your other claim that it's all linked to people that came to Sweden through refugee programs. Do you have any sources to back up your claims?
- cinntaile 2mo ago> As if it isn’t a problem that their CEO is supporting policies that go against everything that Mullvad stands for as a company. Mullvads mission is about privacy and against mass surveillance. That mission has nothing to do with their co-CEOs personal stance on immigration. I don't necessarily see the conflict of interest that the blog talks about?
- einszwei 2mo agoThe immigration policies (or mass-deportations) that Mullvad co-CEO is supporting with political donations cannot be achieved without mass surveillance and secret police. It is really not difficult to draw this line to spot contradiction between co-CEO's personal stance and the company's mission.
- subsistence234 2mo ago[flagged]
- LargoLasskhyfv 2mo ago> cannot be achieved without mass surveillance and secret police. That doesn't apply to countries with a working personal-id system. There it's just a matter of cancelling the banking account. Some sieving at the borders, airports, harbors. Maybe asking around the neighbours, former work where that sucker has gone. Grabbing, and expedite. And that's it. Bye, bye!
- inigyou 2mo agoWell that party wants to enact mass surveillance to protect the country from immigrants
- cinntaile 2mo agoI just checked. They haven't published their political standpoints yet so it's too early to say. They claim they will soon, ahead of the elections.
- kaxu-64 2mo ago[flagged]
- lapkaaaa 2mo agoedgelord
- nuka_coffee 2mo agoWhat rank was it before?
- GlacierFox 2mo ago[flagged]
- Timon3 2mo agoIt's both fascinating and horrifying that fascist terminology seems to be a huge pull factor for some people.
- fragmede 2mo agoOn the topic of privacy, the reason to use an LLM to write is stylometry. If I use my own voice to write anything of significant length, enough personal mannerisms will come through, so that I can be identified by my writing. If someone were to do something subversive, and wanted to be anonymous, that's one more thing to do to hide your tracks.
- Leonard_of_Q 2mo agoJust make sure to use a local model if you're really serious about this since there is no guarantee the cloud models can't not won't add watermarks to the output.
- dnemmers 2mo agoI'd hate to use my own voice to discuss my own views...because someone could think they came from me!
- fragmede 2mo agoIf you were gonna do something that really pissed the wrong people off, you'd not want them to find you.
- u1hcw9nx 2mo agoI wrong long text, never again.
- inigyou 2mo ago> can be called populist,nationalist, conservaive, anti-immigration, and radical, but it can't be called right-wing without explanation. You just said the explanation.
- Caius-Cosades 2mo agoSo what does a political blogpost have to do with HN or tech?
- Leonard_of_Q 2mo agoNothing except for the link with the well-known and -regarded VPN provider Mullvad. The ban on political articles here is not complete nor unbiased.
- g-b-r 2mo agoWhat a blogpost about Mullvad has to do with tech? When easily half of all HN submissions have no relation whatsoever to tech?
- lylo 2mo agoIt's about a popular security tech product! Sure there's a political angle as to _why_ the person has ditched it, but loads of HN news posts do. Not sure why it's flagged
- nopromisessir 2mo agoThis post seems like an overreaction to me. Being this sensitive to company leadership political activity is going to exhaust a person and time would be better spent being careful to buy products with minimal value added from authoritarian nations with a history of gross human rights issues. Lots of counties don't want immigration, especially after they let a large group in and deal with integration challenges. The CCP forcefully places ethnic Han into minority homes to function as de facto informants. The Russians broke up Finnish/Ukrainian families en masse, moving them to the other end of Russia to minimize the likelihood of dissent in occupied areas. There are a lot worse ideas at play in the world than some of the more extreme suggestions that this very infant-sized Swedish party flirt with. On a scale of 1-10 heinousness, barely registers on the global stage. My thinking goes more like this: This product I bought from this nation... Does that Nation tend to value human rights, freedom of expression and liberal values? Sweden... Check. I can buy Swedish products all day. They make nice jets and mobile artillery that push back on the really bad ideas. One CEO's affiliation with an anti immigration populist party which honestly doesn't seem that serious... They've got some Marxist ideas in there. I really doubt these guys go much of anywhere in their current form. It's a capitalist society. Some of their ideas will stick but the party is immature. I wouldn't worry so much.
- inigyou 2mo agoIt's not a minor political activity, they're literally the main funding source of Sweden's Nazi party.
- nopromisessir 2mo agoYou are telling me that this party's platform is literally that Swedish decent people are superior... Full stop... Because that is the ethnofascist(Nazi) position. If so, I'd be keen to see clear evidence of that.
- inigyou 2mo agoYou really don't have to look far. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%96rebro_Party#Immigration_and_remigration_policy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%96rebro_Party#Immigration_...
- g-b-r 2mo agoMost of the current comments here are in favor of Örebro, when did tech become so disgusting?
- squishington 2mo agoThere are social forces that are shifting the collective mindset to be more sympathetic to anti immigration sentiments. We see it in Australia recently, but the political analysis of this phenomenon is still lagging from my perspective (I am not endorsing these sentiments).
- g-b-r 2mo agoI think we can call most of these social forces Putin (although there are real problems with immigration). Ok, in Australia they can probably be called Murdoch
- squishington 2mo agoThe mainstream media plays into this for sure. But I think there is a lot more to it. I think most of us on this platform have cosmopolitan leanings. We're educated and have some job mobility. I've worked overseas because I got an engineering education and did well in it. But wage stagnation, job insecurity, housing costs, low rental vacancy all play into this dynamic. There are a lot of people who don't like seeing their country change in its demographics. That is partly racism, but its also fear of change. I don't like it but I can understand it. When material conditions devolve, there will be a lot of people who blame the "other", even if its misidentifying the cause. I think Australia is lagging behind the right wing populist movement of the UK and US but we are on the same trajectory, and the major party policitians still don't understand how to address it. And most left wing people won't attempt to understand it because they at stuck using rationality and ethics as their rhetoric, and don't understand that emotion and grievance are going to trump that in politics.
- g-b-r 2mo agoI largely agree
- s08148692 2mo ago[flagged]
- Gud 2mo agoPersonally I welcome more parties in the Swedish Riksdag. It is also interesting how they may get their seat. Örebropartiet is a local party to Örebro, but because they are getting a lot of votes in the local district election they may end up in a seat in the Riksdag, which is highly unusual.
- g-b-r 2mo ago> because they are getting a lot of votes in the local district election Or because they're getting a lot of money through Mullvad subscriptions
- deleted 2mo ago[deleted]
- nopromisessir 2mo agoLots of discussion surrounding what ethnonationism is... Ethnonationalism: Defined by shared ancestry, lineage, and cultural heritage. Membership is exclusive and inherited by birth, focusing on preserving a specific ethnic identity. Civic Nationalism: Defined by shared political principles, values, and laws. Membership is inclusive and open to anyone who adheres to the state's legal framework, regardless of background. Does the party call for remigration or a lower status for immigrants who have committed no crimes, found jobs and are not a disproportionate drain on the welfare state? To be ethnonationist, I believe they must call for that on the basis of us vs them. Perhaps someone can provide evidence of this. I haven't seen any. Seems like they are very upset about crime and welfare drain. Also they have a bunch other non immigration related positions that some might label as extreme.
- g-b-r 2mo ago"They will also be forced to leave, even if they are born in Sweden, because they have no natural connection to Sweden. They are not Swedish" I don't see any mention of crimes, having jobs or "being a disproportionate drain" (however you define that).
- nopromisessir 2mo agoI do not speak Swedish, but I looked into this via machine translation. My understanding is that the discussion can be found around this timestamp link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4goynP4mHYI&t=1h18m43s http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4goynP4mHYI&t=1h18m43s According to the machine translation, Allard explicitly frames his argument around cultural assimilation, economic contribution, and behavior rather than biological ethnicity or skin color alone. In public statements, he has routinely asserted that an individual's racial background or skin color is irrelevant to his politics. Look, I'm not some Allard supporter. Don't know the guy, not even Swedish. Easily found some stuff on their platform which I quickly disagree with. I really doubt he's literally out there just calling for mass deportation of folks based on ethnicity. That is actual ethnonationism. Swedish people are from a nice free society and are accustomed to low crime and low problems. They've got this 2nd generation migrant issue that lots of Europe is dealing with. The definition of ethnonationist is being used so flipantly throughout this thread. Do your really think this guy is just standing up saying 'remigrate all dark skinned folks who got here recently'? Even if that were his true political goals, it would be pretty self defeating to just charge onto the stage going full Nazi. He wouldn't have this much movement.
- belorn 2mo agoPeople who look at this from a US political perspective is going to get a lot of misunderstanding unless one look into the specifics that are the Swedish political system and laws. The party in question is a small local government party looking to primary get seats in their local government, but with aspiration to get into national politics under a special rule that provide a single seat (1 out of 349) in parliament if the party get enough votes in a local election. The politician in question has made some comments about national immigration policy during debates, which local government has no power over, and which is what the label ethnonationalist is exclusively based on. Last election they got 7 700 votes, and they would need around 20 000 votes to get that one parliament seat. The specific quote in question has a bunch of context. The background was a parliamentary proposition that suggest that immigrants that are on subsidy programs should be required to do some social work as part of the integration process. The opposition disagreed, arguing that this would enable the government to exploit immigrants as free labor, and that is when this politician commented that if they want subsidy but refuse to work then they should return back to their home country (often translated as deported, which is not completely wrong translation but lacks context). The discussion around deportation from Sweden is also very different from the political discussion in US. Sweden has been deporting people for about 100 years if a person lacks permission to stay in the country, and there is no party that is advocating to stop this. What is debated is the definition used in the exception for unsafe home country, and a bit about what specific circumstances a permission to stay in the country can be withdrawn. Except for the above mentioned parliamentary proposition, I do not know of any political statements that Örebro party or their leader has said on those issues.
- sph 2mo ago> People who look at this from a US political perspective is going to get a lot of misunderstanding Honestly you’ve summed up 90% of social media outrage.
- hereaiham 2mo ago> The opposition disagreed, arguing that this would enable the government to exploit immigrants as free labor, and that is when this politician commented that if they want subsidy but refuse to work then they should return back to their home country. If the opposition parties disagreed, why did this politician assume that unemployed people "refuse to work"? like what type of argument that is? He sounds like an ignorant populist repeating sound bites to spread hatred honestly. Or maybe he thinks of them as pawns with no agency, and not people.
- kmfrk 2mo agoSwedish politics aside(!), I'd love to have other VPN services as exit points for Tailscale. More choice is good, and hopefully that becomes an option one day.
- lylo 2mo agoI've been recommended https://airvpn.org https://airvpn.org. Any opinions?
- Cider9986 2mo agoNot audited. IVPN is what I would use if I didn't use Mullvad.