7 ms·
> Between 2005 and 2024, Chinese firms received on average three to eight times more subsidies than competitors in OECD economies. https://www.oecd.org/en/blog
by creato 2mo ago
> Between 2005 and 2024, Chinese firms received on average three to eight times more subsidies than competitors in OECD economies.
https://www.oecd.org/en/blogs/2026/06/industrial-subsidies-hit-usd-108-billion-and-reshape-global-competition.html https://www.oecd.org/en/blogs/2026/06/industrial-subsidies-h...
- baby 2mo agoI can't read this seriously while being unable to buy any Chinese EVs here in the US.
- tptacek 2mo agoYou can't buy Chinese EVs in the US because China is overtly running a dumping campaign for them. It's an interesting story, read up on it!
- awesome_dude 2mo agoWait - what? You cannot buy them because they are dumping them??????
- tptacek 2mo ago"Dumping" is a term of art in international trade. It's the thing that happens when a foreign exporter sells goods in your country below their production cost (or far below what they're charging domestic customers). It's done to fuck up the foreign markets for those goods, or, in China's case, as a relief valve for malinvestment. China drastically overfunds EV production. There's a whole weird story where provinces apparently competed to get slices of the EV production business, which resulted in a large number of competing firms, producing far more vehicles than the Chinese domestic market could consume. This isn't just a US thing. Europe tariffs the heck out of these cars.
- awesome_dude 2mo agoYes, I am well aware of the definition of dumping - that fails to explain why people cannot buy them. If they're being dumped there is an oversupply, and people are spoilt for choice. The market is awash with the dumped product. Not being able to buy them is the exact reverse of that.
- tptacek 2mo agoThe entire point of anti-dumping actions is that left unregulated, people will buy these unsubsidized cars.
- awesome_dude 2mo agoRight - your comment was very poorly articulated - and loaded with supposition. Your claim is that the reason people cannot buy the vehicles ISN'T because they are being dumped BUT because the government SAYS they are being dumped and has therefore actively prevented them from being sold. The supposition is that it's an accurate claim by the governments - there are reports that the Chinese manufacturers are being restricted by their government and that there has been a period of over production, but how much of that is true and how much is propaganda is very difficult to actually ascertain.
- tptacek 2mo agoI don't know what you're trying to say here. I don't think there's a serious dispute about whether China is dumping EVs, and the US isn't the only place claiming that.
- watwut 2mo agoThe whole SV is based on dumping. And was for decades.
- tptacek 2mo agoI don't know how this is supposed to respond to what I just wrote. If an EU country restricted contracts or usage with Google or OpenAI, I wouldn't call them out for doing so. All I'm saying is that it's especially clear why Chinese EVs are impeded from selling in the US.
- t0mpr1c3 2mo agoThat is (factually) a giant overstatement, and ignores domestic US politics. It's almost like you believe the US remains interested in promoting free trade. If it did, it wouldn't be levying illegal and constantly changing import tariffs, in violation of international trade agreements that it has signed up to.
- cyberax 2mo agoI read up on it, and it's not clear to me that it's actual dumping. As in "selling below the cost of production". I would say that China is trying to steer the car makers away from competing locally, as it's going to result in a price war. But that's not quite dumping per se.
- mvdtnz 2mo ago[flagged]
- lostlogin 2mo agoWhat’s the level of subsidy that’s ok?
- throwaway2037 2mo agoI'll take a stab. How about something like not more than 50% greater than OECD average per industry? My point: It seems reasonable that some countries was to specialise in certain areas. For example: Taiwan and (East!) Germany chose to build-out their semiconductor industry starting in the 1980s. It has paid pretty good dividends with a healthy amount of industrial subsidies. I also think the OECD should be raising tariff rates to protect against ridiculous levels of Chinese subsidies.
- t0mpr1c3 2mo agoQuite a few members of the OECD have already done so.
- lostlogin 2mo agoAppeals to fairness are difficult to accept when the rest of us out here in the world have been hurt by the US imposing tariffs and sanctions on us over the past few decades, and with intense chaotic energy in the last few years. How do we make a system everyone is to abide by when the US can just rewrite the rules when it suits? Order collapses when a huge country behaves this way.
- jtavner 2mo ago[dead]
- blitzar 2mo ago"my level" - $1 more is cheating
- jtavner 2mo ago[dead]