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The thing people are pissed about is giving better rates to datacenters. Compare this to most of Europe (and Texas if I understood correctly) where the detacen

by doikor 2mo ago

The thing people are pissed about is giving better rates to datacenters. Compare this to most of Europe (and Texas if I understood correctly) where the detacenters buy their electricity from the same market as everyone else (in Europe the spot market or futures) meaning they effectively pay the same price as everyone else. It’s when they do some back room deal with the local public utility to get 50% off and offload the real costs to the public when people get angry.

skew-aberration 2mo ago
I don't think the mechanism is that different, and even if it was Europe, etc would have the same issue - data centers would still bid up the price for existing capacity, and the future capacity added to accommodate the dcs would be added at a higher marginal rate too because scarcity of new supply + base load nature of dc loads. So the problem will get worse before it gets better
- doikor 2mo ago
  Yes datacenters inccrease the prices here but they don't get a cheaper price then everyone else. There is a massive difference there.
  - skew-aberration 2mo ago
    Concrete examples? Quick google only shows small discounts for DCs relative to other wholesale industrial consumers, which could be partially explained away by the flat load, lack of stability concerns, no need for power factor correction hardware, etc. I think 'bidding up the market' is the dominant mechanism, here in Australia (spot market + futures) consumer prices are projected to increase 26%.
linkregister 2mo ago
Is there an example of this happening? Isn't the problem that datacenters are drawing electricity at the market rate and driving the cost up, rather than paying a surcharge for the difference?
TitaRusell 2mo ago
Building a data center in my country is so expensive only Microsoft and Google do it. The paperwork and environmental laws just aren't worth it.
heisgone 2mo ago
In Quebec, new data center will have to pay almost twice the price of what citizen are paying. it's 14 cents/kwh vs about 8 cents/kwh. Crypto center are set to pay 18 cents/kwh. That's the advantage of having a public utility.

by doikor 2mo ago

skew-aberration 2mo ago

I don't think the mechanism is that different, and even if it was Europe, etc would have the same issue - data centers would still bid up the price for existing capacity, and the future capacity added to accommodate the dcs would be added at a higher marginal rate too because scarcity of new supply + base load nature of dc loads. So the problem will get worse before it gets better

doikor 2mo ago
Yes datacenters inccrease the prices here but they don't get a cheaper price then everyone else. There is a massive difference there.
- skew-aberration 2mo ago
  Concrete examples? Quick google only shows small discounts for DCs relative to other wholesale industrial consumers, which could be partially explained away by the flat load, lack of stability concerns, no need for power factor correction hardware, etc. I think 'bidding up the market' is the dominant mechanism, here in Australia (spot market + futures) consumer prices are projected to increase 26%.

linkregister 2mo ago

Is there an example of this happening? Isn't the problem that datacenters are drawing electricity at the market rate and driving the cost up, rather than paying a surcharge for the difference?

TitaRusell 2mo ago

Building a data center in my country is so expensive only Microsoft and Google do it. The paperwork and environmental laws just aren't worth it.

heisgone 2mo ago

In Quebec, new data center will have to pay almost twice the price of what citizen are paying. it's 14 cents/kwh vs about 8 cents/kwh. Crypto center are set to pay 18 cents/kwh. That's the advantage of having a public utility.