7 ms·

My parents lived in the same house for 40 years, my entire childhood was there. My grandparents (both sets) lived in their house for 50 years. I can't comprehen

by rr808 2mo ago

My parents lived in the same house for 40 years, my entire childhood was there. My grandparents (both sets) lived in their house for 50 years. I can't comprehend how Americans keep moving for jobs or to upgrade or to get to a better school district. Surely you want some permanence? Get to know your neighbors? Edit yes I did move around in my twenties, but that stopped at 30.

Spooky23 2mo ago
Remember people marry later if at all so you break the cohort developments of growing up and adulting. I helped lead my local little league. It’s different than it used to be - it’s pretty typical to have tball parents in their 40s. A group of parents from 20s to 50s aren’t going to hang out, they don’t relate. I’m a late genx, most of my friends parents were in their 30s when I was a little leaguer. The demise of old line churches is similar. We did CYO basketball in the same parish my wife did. It’s the last of what was 8-10 catholic parishes in my city. And unlike in my youth where you had good mix multigenerational parishioners… the parish survives based on the beneficence of 5-10 people in their late 60s and 70s, with few people rising to behind them. Mainline Protestant parishes are similar. The only growth in religious communities are independent Baptists, which are great but integrate into the broader community differently, because each church mostly stands alone and isn’t part of a bigger system.
- frogperson 2mo ago
  Church groups, or at least an awful lot of them, were co-opted by groups like the Council For National Policy (parent group of the Heritage Foundation). I think a lot of younger folks see through the BS and don't want to send their time listening to hate speech discussed as gospel. These churches chose thier path, and so did their parishioners.
  - antonymoose 2mo ago
    What church(es) are you thinking of here exactly? I’ve never heard of any such group in my entire independent Southern Baptist life. On the contrary, most folks in the 20-40 range are tired of “cafeteria Christian” denominations that pick and chose which parts of scripture to stand by and which go ignore based on ever shifting social trends, whether it be so-called woke churches hosting drag performers or Boomer-tier Endtimes preachers that can’t stop talking about their all expense paid Israeli “pilgrimage.”
    - beardyw 2mo ago
      > pick and chose which parts of scripture to stand by OK. Next time you read the parable of the good Samaritan I want you to reframe it as "The Good Drag Queen". That's how you are meant to see it.
      - antonymoose 2mo ago
        I read it as a take encouraging me to render aid to anyone in a dire emergency regardless of their background.
        dpark 2mo ago
        That’s a very narrow reading. The parable was in response to the question “who’s my neighbor” in the “love thy neighbor” statement and Jesus basically said “even those you hate”(i.e. the Samaritans).
        antonymoose 2mo ago
        I can love you and still disagree with the things you do and not endorse them. These are not in conflict.
        dpark 2mo ago
        This claim hinges on the idea that homosexuality is a thing you do and not a part of who you are. You can love someone while hating a thing they do. You cannot love someone while hating who they are. The conservative Christian notion that homosexuality is a choice to is honestly super weird to me because I certainly never chose heterosexuality. It’s one of those things that only makes sense while you’re in it and it’s constantly being beat into you, and with some distance you see that it’s ridiculous.
        antonymoose 2mo ago
        You’re free to believe whatever it is you like - that’s your belief system. I didn’t intend to start a theological debate ultimately. Only highlight as a counterpoint to the GP that going to church in the modern era really feels like you have to pick one side or another and that it’s simply an extension of politics rather than an higher-order thing.
  - YinglingHeavy 2mo ago
    As a Nietzschean it is amusing, this argument that Christianity is losing favor because it is...not moral enough! Truly our institutions are post-Christianity. The herd morality has out survived Christianity itself. Nietzsche's nightmare
    - mjevans 2mo ago
      The nightmare is not outgrowing the child version of 'how to morality'. It's moving past it without reaching the enlightenment of being moral because it's the best large scale and long term strategy. Instead the grown psychopathic children all move for instant gratification and rewards in the now, damn the cost of society and civilization long term. I want to reach Orville / Star Trek, thank you!
      - inigyou 2mo ago
        When you say you want to reach Orville, are you referring to the episode where everyone wears an upvote counter badge? Because I can see that one coming true.
    - PsylentKnight 2mo ago
      It’s losing favor because it’s lacking in a lot of ways. The most exhorted virtue in the church is faith, which is just another word for irrationality. So the church often ends up in conflict with reality or even its own doctrine Its more difficult to maintain this when everyone has a device in their pocket that allows them to access information and people outside their church bubble
- Timwi 2mo ago
  Not sure how to feel about your implication that unmarried people are neither grown up nor adults.
  - yoyohello13 2mo ago
    They are obviously Christian. Christians tend to have a dim view of anyone that doesn't marry and have children (unless they join the clergy).
    - znpy 2mo ago
      Most religions do. For example I don’t think islam has a much better view of unmarried and kidless people.
      - yoyohello13 2mo ago
        The abrahamic ones for sure.
  - nradov 2mo ago
    I'm not religious but just looking around it's pretty obvious that many unmarried adults act quite immature (delayed adolescence). Which way the causality runs is harder to determine, but when you're responsible for and accountable to a spouse that forces you to grow up a bit.
    - robocat 2mo ago
      > accountable to a spouse that forces you to grow up a bit Having children forces you, and ~10% of married people don't have kids. In New Zealand, about 50% of kids are born to the unmarried. As you say, correlation and causation are hard to pick given the selection biases of who chooses to be married, and who your peer group is if you are married.
- mghackerlady 2mo ago
  I don't know where you are, but at least where I am (and from what I remember, it's been a while since I've felt welcome in a place of worship) the church is oftentimes the only place you can find young families. I was raised and mostly interact with Lutherans though, so maybe it's different for other denominations
marssaxman 2mo ago
I really don't want permanence, no! I start to feel fidgety and uncomfortable after I've spent too many years in one place. The idea of living in a single house for decades on end sounds like a kind of imprisonment. I think of Seattle as "home", and once lived there for twenty-three years straight - but I had nine different addresses during that time. I am probably more of a nomad at heart than the average American, but perhaps Americans have more of a nomadic temperament than the average human. Getting to know your neighbors can be a mixed bag. Sometimes you make a great new friend: sometimes you're stuck with an obstreperous busybody. It can be nice not having to spend your whole life dealing with the same people and the same conflicts.
- kakacik 2mo ago
  Yeah tight communities are blessing, nightmare or both. Good luck with privacy, some people are nosy by default or simply self-centered... weirdos to be polite, gossip, looking down on differences, hard to integrate for newcomers, and one has to conform to unspoken rules, like them or not. Not exactly feeling of proper freedom, is it. If you get into beef with your neighbor for something which is trivial over long time, now you are stuck with an asshole next door for next 30-50 years. Its not just US, we moved in Switzerland from very cosmopolitan and international Geneva to small village in wineyards and all this applies at least as much.
cosmic_cheese 2mo ago
Problem is, unless you happen to live in a relatively wealthy neighborhood, even if you stay put your neighbors and community probably won’t so you still won’t have much permanence.
jacobolus 2mo ago
Housing has gotten much more expensive in many places, and jobs less stable.
xyzelement 2mo ago
Is it really an American thing? Every company's London office is filled with Germans, French, Italians and polaks/Russian. How'd they get there
- StefanBatory 2mo ago
  I am very interested in why you both chose to single Poles out with this, used lowercase AND used slur here. > and polaks
  - rationalist 2mo ago
    Unless OP speaks Polish, it does appear to be a mispelling of an offensive term. > In Polish, "Polak" simply means a Polish man (with "Polka" meaning a Polish woman). > In English, the spelling "Polack" (and its plural "Polacks") is an old borrowing from Polish, but today it is generally considered a derogatory or offensive ethnic slur for Polish people
ip26 2mo ago
You describe it like it’s some kind of a treadmill chasing new. But if you have kids at 35, they start school when you’re 40.. were you thinking about the quality of the neighborhood schools when you bought your house at 25? Or suppose you meet your spouse when you are 30, after you bought a house. There’s inherently much less moving-around if you get married at 18 and have kids straight away - the plan is settled from the start.
greygoo222 2mo ago
The world is so big, why spend 40 years in a single place?
- znpy 2mo ago
  Lay down roots, be part of a community, have meaningful connections. My parents live in southern Italy, in the same small town my mother is from and the small town my father is from is like 5-6 km far. Every time there is some kind of event (eg: somebody’s parents passing away) it so hearth-warming to see people come together and try and be close to people they’ve known all their life (60+ years). I moved to a large town nowadays for work and i have a bunch of superficial connections, my peers lament pretty much the same. I can see why somebody would like to stay 40 years in the same place.
- inigyou 2mo ago
  As with many things, you can go broad, or you can go deep. Not both. You can go one and then the other. I expect society is best with a mix of both types of people. It usually is.
mghackerlady 2mo ago
Oftentimes the impermanence is for a chance of that later permanence. Some people do achieve it, but with the economy and world as a whole right now it's becoming rarer to be able to settle down somewhere

by rr808 2mo ago

Spooky23 2mo ago

Remember people marry later if at all so you break the cohort developments of growing up and adulting. I helped lead my local little league. It’s different than it used to be - it’s pretty typical to have tball parents in their 40s. A group of parents from 20s to 50s aren’t going to hang out, they don’t relate. I’m a late genx, most of my friends parents were in their 30s when I was a little leaguer. The demise of old line churches is similar. We did CYO basketball in the same parish my wife did. It’s the last of what was 8-10 catholic parishes in my city. And unlike in my youth where you had good mix multigenerational parishioners… the parish survives based on the beneficence of 5-10 people in their late 60s and 70s, with few people rising to behind them. Mainline Protestant parishes are similar. The only growth in religious communities are independent Baptists, which are great but integrate into the broader community differently, because each church mostly stands alone and isn’t part of a bigger system.

frogperson 2mo ago
Church groups, or at least an awful lot of them, were co-opted by groups like the Council For National Policy (parent group of the Heritage Foundation). I think a lot of younger folks see through the BS and don't want to send their time listening to hate speech discussed as gospel. These churches chose thier path, and so did their parishioners.
- antonymoose 2mo ago
  What church(es) are you thinking of here exactly? I’ve never heard of any such group in my entire independent Southern Baptist life. On the contrary, most folks in the 20-40 range are tired of “cafeteria Christian” denominations that pick and chose which parts of scripture to stand by and which go ignore based on ever shifting social trends, whether it be so-called woke churches hosting drag performers or Boomer-tier Endtimes preachers that can’t stop talking about their all expense paid Israeli “pilgrimage.”
  - beardyw 2mo ago
    > pick and chose which parts of scripture to stand by OK. Next time you read the parable of the good Samaritan I want you to reframe it as "The Good Drag Queen". That's how you are meant to see it.
    - antonymoose 2mo ago
      I read it as a take encouraging me to render aid to anyone in a dire emergency regardless of their background.
      - dpark 2mo ago
        That’s a very narrow reading. The parable was in response to the question “who’s my neighbor” in the “love thy neighbor” statement and Jesus basically said “even those you hate”(i.e. the Samaritans).
        antonymoose 2mo ago
        I can love you and still disagree with the things you do and not endorse them. These are not in conflict.
        dpark 2mo ago
        This claim hinges on the idea that homosexuality is a thing you do and not a part of who you are. You can love someone while hating a thing they do. You cannot love someone while hating who they are. The conservative Christian notion that homosexuality is a choice to is honestly super weird to me because I certainly never chose heterosexuality. It’s one of those things that only makes sense while you’re in it and it’s constantly being beat into you, and with some distance you see that it’s ridiculous.
        antonymoose 2mo ago
        You’re free to believe whatever it is you like - that’s your belief system. I didn’t intend to start a theological debate ultimately. Only highlight as a counterpoint to the GP that going to church in the modern era really feels like you have to pick one side or another and that it’s simply an extension of politics rather than an higher-order thing.
- YinglingHeavy 2mo ago
  As a Nietzschean it is amusing, this argument that Christianity is losing favor because it is...not moral enough! Truly our institutions are post-Christianity. The herd morality has out survived Christianity itself. Nietzsche's nightmare
  - mjevans 2mo ago
    The nightmare is not outgrowing the child version of 'how to morality'. It's moving past it without reaching the enlightenment of being moral because it's the best large scale and long term strategy. Instead the grown psychopathic children all move for instant gratification and rewards in the now, damn the cost of society and civilization long term. I want to reach Orville / Star Trek, thank you!
    - inigyou 2mo ago
      When you say you want to reach Orville, are you referring to the episode where everyone wears an upvote counter badge? Because I can see that one coming true.
  - PsylentKnight 2mo ago
    It’s losing favor because it’s lacking in a lot of ways. The most exhorted virtue in the church is faith, which is just another word for irrationality. So the church often ends up in conflict with reality or even its own doctrine Its more difficult to maintain this when everyone has a device in their pocket that allows them to access information and people outside their church bubble
Timwi 2mo ago
Not sure how to feel about your implication that unmarried people are neither grown up nor adults.
- yoyohello13 2mo ago
  They are obviously Christian. Christians tend to have a dim view of anyone that doesn't marry and have children (unless they join the clergy).
  - znpy 2mo ago
    Most religions do. For example I don’t think islam has a much better view of unmarried and kidless people.
    - yoyohello13 2mo ago
      The abrahamic ones for sure.
- nradov 2mo ago
  I'm not religious but just looking around it's pretty obvious that many unmarried adults act quite immature (delayed adolescence). Which way the causality runs is harder to determine, but when you're responsible for and accountable to a spouse that forces you to grow up a bit.
  - robocat 2mo ago
    > accountable to a spouse that forces you to grow up a bit Having children forces you, and ~10% of married people don't have kids. In New Zealand, about 50% of kids are born to the unmarried. As you say, correlation and causation are hard to pick given the selection biases of who chooses to be married, and who your peer group is if you are married.
mghackerlady 2mo ago
I don't know where you are, but at least where I am (and from what I remember, it's been a while since I've felt welcome in a place of worship) the church is oftentimes the only place you can find young families. I was raised and mostly interact with Lutherans though, so maybe it's different for other denominations

marssaxman 2mo ago

I really don't want permanence, no! I start to feel fidgety and uncomfortable after I've spent too many years in one place. The idea of living in a single house for decades on end sounds like a kind of imprisonment. I think of Seattle as "home", and once lived there for twenty-three years straight - but I had nine different addresses during that time. I am probably more of a nomad at heart than the average American, but perhaps Americans have more of a nomadic temperament than the average human. Getting to know your neighbors can be a mixed bag. Sometimes you make a great new friend: sometimes you're stuck with an obstreperous busybody. It can be nice not having to spend your whole life dealing with the same people and the same conflicts.

kakacik 2mo ago
Yeah tight communities are blessing, nightmare or both. Good luck with privacy, some people are nosy by default or simply self-centered... weirdos to be polite, gossip, looking down on differences, hard to integrate for newcomers, and one has to conform to unspoken rules, like them or not. Not exactly feeling of proper freedom, is it. If you get into beef with your neighbor for something which is trivial over long time, now you are stuck with an asshole next door for next 30-50 years. Its not just US, we moved in Switzerland from very cosmopolitan and international Geneva to small village in wineyards and all this applies at least as much.

cosmic_cheese 2mo ago

Problem is, unless you happen to live in a relatively wealthy neighborhood, even if you stay put your neighbors and community probably won’t so you still won’t have much permanence.

jacobolus 2mo ago

Housing has gotten much more expensive in many places, and jobs less stable.

xyzelement 2mo ago

Is it really an American thing? Every company's London office is filled with Germans, French, Italians and polaks/Russian. How'd they get there

StefanBatory 2mo ago
I am very interested in why you both chose to single Poles out with this, used lowercase AND used slur here. > and polaks
- rationalist 2mo ago
  Unless OP speaks Polish, it does appear to be a mispelling of an offensive term. > In Polish, "Polak" simply means a Polish man (with "Polka" meaning a Polish woman). > In English, the spelling "Polack" (and its plural "Polacks") is an old borrowing from Polish, but today it is generally considered a derogatory or offensive ethnic slur for Polish people

ip26 2mo ago

You describe it like it’s some kind of a treadmill chasing new. But if you have kids at 35, they start school when you’re 40.. were you thinking about the quality of the neighborhood schools when you bought your house at 25? Or suppose you meet your spouse when you are 30, after you bought a house. There’s inherently much less moving-around if you get married at 18 and have kids straight away - the plan is settled from the start.

greygoo222 2mo ago

The world is so big, why spend 40 years in a single place?

znpy 2mo ago
Lay down roots, be part of a community, have meaningful connections. My parents live in southern Italy, in the same small town my mother is from and the small town my father is from is like 5-6 km far. Every time there is some kind of event (eg: somebody’s parents passing away) it so hearth-warming to see people come together and try and be close to people they’ve known all their life (60+ years). I moved to a large town nowadays for work and i have a bunch of superficial connections, my peers lament pretty much the same. I can see why somebody would like to stay 40 years in the same place.
inigyou 2mo ago
As with many things, you can go broad, or you can go deep. Not both. You can go one and then the other. I expect society is best with a mix of both types of people. It usually is.

mghackerlady 2mo ago

Oftentimes the impermanence is for a chance of that later permanence. Some people do achieve it, but with the economy and world as a whole right now it's becoming rarer to be able to settle down somewhere