8 ms·

It's quite sad to see these stats. It used to be the defacto standard for custom ROMs. These dwindling numbers make me think either people aren't as interested

by XiS 2mo ago

It's quite sad to see these stats. It used to be the defacto standard for custom ROMs. These dwindling numbers make me think either people aren't as interested in custom ROMs anymore and using the (bloated/Google) factory ROMs or maybe there's some new standard. Didn't these numbers used to be much, much higher in the past? NB: Since I'm on GrapheneOS now I haven't looked back

reorder9695 2mo ago
I'm trying to use lineage at the minute, but xiaomi has made it next to impossible to even unlock the bootloader on my phone, and even then I'd likely need to move at least one of my banks as I seem to remember it not working on lineage, and I'm the target audience for a custom rom. For mass appeal it needs to be much easier, and without any compatibility issues with stock android. I cannot believe it's somehow standard to not allow bootloader unlocking on a device owned by the user, I am fully aware of the risks of it but phone companies insist on treating me like a complete idiot.
jeroenhd 2mo ago
Now that manufacturers support their devices for 5+ years and ROMs are actually quite usable out of the box, the need for custom ROMs is much lower. Plus, some convenience apps require things like remote attestation, getting in the way of users. I suspect a significant chunk of the serious ROM user base is also lost to GrapheneOS these days. Even Samsung is fine with a quick debloating session you can do through WebUSB these days. The only phones I'd really need a custom ROM on these days are those certain Chinese brands that stuff their phone with absolute garbage. Compared to the days where a custom ROM would be faster and updates would end after half a year, if they happened at all, I barely have a reason to use a custom ROM these days.
realusername 2mo ago
It's a combination of anti-competitive practices from Google (Play Integrity, more and more features locked behind closed source binaries instead of AOSP) and manufacturer locking the bootloaders much more than in the past.
NoboruWataya 2mo ago
> NB: Since I'm on GrapheneOS now I haven't looked back Not to suggest GrapheneOS has become the new "standard" given it currently only supports Pixels, but I hear a lot more about GrapheneOS as the custom Android build than LineageOS, so I wonder if a lot of people have moved there from LineageOS. The other reason for a decline in custom ROMs may just be that apps are becoming more and more locked down. Banking apps are getting stricter all the time, so even the ones that work with custom ROMs today aren't guaranteed to work tomorrow. And more people probably use Google Wallet than ever, which also rules out custom ROMs AFAIK.
- jorvi 2mo ago
  [flagged]
  - StrLght 2mo ago
    Could you please share some examples? I often see them being on point and highlighting important details. Majority of custom roms aren't taking security seriously, so I don't think there's anything wrong with calling them out on that.
    - jorvi 2mo ago
      [flagged]
      - pferde 2mo ago
        That's because Unified Attestation is unsalvageable. It's basically the same scam as Google's, with different owners doing (or wanting to do) the extortion.
      - StrLght 2mo ago
        I find it to be pretty reasonable, and also consistent with what GrapheneOS previously said. They were consistently against company-owned verification. I don't see anything offensive here: they aren't attacking individuals or projects, but rather attacking an approach that is harmful.
aguyongithub 2mo ago
Nowadays most devices can't be bootloader unlocked at all (see Huawei/BBK(Oppo,Vivo) in China) or can but with difficulties and, in some cases, little to no driver support (see Xiaomi or even Samsung's unlock procedures too, difficult to deal with from experience). So developers cannot develop ROMs as they cannot get on the phones anyway. This is partly done, I think, to prevent users from uninstalling bloatware (Chinese brands doing this mostly), since I've had to deal with this on a BBK branded phone, locked down so far even ADB can't touch the bloat. Google is also a part of this with play integrity and apps being blocked from working, so if you depend on Google or if you want to use that phone in your day-to-day life with apps from work or banking apps, it might not work great on the same phone. In my opinion I think it is mostly the manufacturers fighting this, Google is solvable but a locked bootloader isn't.
preisschild 2mo ago
Have used LOS for a decade but then switched to GrapheneOS a few years ago. Both projects are a godsend though.
pta2002 2mo ago
Honestly I just don't really care to anymore. I used to flash custom ROMs on all my phones because I could only afford cheap (100-200€) phones that were filled with bloatware, but ever since I started being able to afford a decent mid-range phone (Pixel 6a was the first one I didn't reflash) I just found out I wasn't actually missing anything, and I definitely enjoy things like contactless payments, and not having something randomly break every time I update.
noirscape 2mo ago
It's because of Google Play Services and the subsequent years long gutting of AOSPs application list. Google enforces OEMs to bundle their entire suite if they want to ship with Play Services and then uses that as an excuse to kill the basic AOSP phone apps that are outside of their ecosystem. That in turn harms the ability for Custom ROMs to ship basic apps like SMS readers, phone dialers and similar such, all of which used to be (maybe some still are, but they're all very much not well maintained) part of AOSP. If there's any silver lining, the upcoming play service blockade to install your own software on Android is likely going to at least create a burst of users for older devices. The actual numbers are frankly even more disappointing - these numbers are heavily pushed up up by waydroid, which is an emulator for Android apps on Desktop Computing. More than half of the US installs is running Waydroid, with the actual most used real device in the US being nx_tab... which is LineageOS for the Nintendo Switch. That's a difference of 180k and 12k btw. The most used actual phone in the US for LineageOS is beyondx, which is the codename for the Galaxy S10 5g, a device that at a glance stopped being sold last year. China by contrast fares much better when it comes to LineageOS (as Google Play Services isn't allowed in the country by export controls, the control from Google isn't nearly as strong there); the most used device there is actually a phone, the Xiaomi Mi 8 (dipper) and right behind it, the Xiaomi Mi 10T(/Pro) codenamed apollon. Final country worth mentioning is Brazil, which apparently really likes the moto g7 power (ocean), a phone from roughly the same period as the Galaxy S10 5g. Vietnam is also relatively high, with the Galaxy S7 (herolte) being the most used device. Russia is just a case where it's basically all waydroid users - not real phones. At least from my understanding of the world, most of these numbers make sense if you consider them in proximity to US power, financial capabilities making phones last longer than their official support dates and just a rough idea of what phone brands are popular in which country.
ekr 2mo ago
I used to be a long time lineageos (and before that, cyanogenmod) user. Phones always felt faster, smoother, and with better battery life without all the bloat. Felt more secure too. But at some point, I had a few apps that stopped working with unofficial ROMs, or with rooted phones. For a while, I played with magisk root hiding, but the play integrity api kept changing, it was just a hassle. Not worth it. So now I have two phones. One with lineage, and my daily driver with a factory ROM.
rascul 2mo ago
From what I understand, my phone's 4G won't work with lineage os and either of the two cell providers that have reception in my area so it's basically unusable for me. I would like to use it but I effectively can't.
khurs 2mo ago
> or maybe there's some new standard. China developed Harmony OS in response to American banning some of their brands from using Google Play. https://www.huaweicentral.com/huawei-harmonyos-once-again-overtakes-ios-by-19-share-hike/ https://www.huaweicentral.com/huawei-harmonyos-once-again-ov...
rk06 2mo ago
a significant contribution is due to android companies not allowing bootloader to be unlocked and then not providing kernel sources, making any development very hard, and many times impossible.
rbits 2mo ago
My phone's bootloader is unlocked but LineageOS doesn't support it (Zenfone 9). I would use it if I could.
gucci-on-fleek 2mo ago
- Spoofing SafetyNet used to be trivial, and not many apps depended on it; whereas these days, it's between hard and impossible to spoof Play Integrity, and it feels like much more apps depend on it. (At least, that's why I stopped rooting my phone.) - If you want a non-bloated, mostly-AOSP ROM with updates for many years, installing LineageOS (or another third-party ROM) used to be the only option; whereas these days, the Pixel phones give you most of this, and you can just buy these in a store instead of needing to manually flash a ROM. - The stock ROMs from most manufacturers are less horrible than they used to be. I'm not saying that they're great now, but there's a pretty huge difference between most new phones today and a KitKat-era cheap Samsung phone. - As you said, I suspect that GrapheneOS has supplanted LineageOS for many of the enthusiast users.
- Ampersander 2mo ago
  I believe a lot of the enthusiasm we had at the start of the smartphone age is also now gone. The phone is now a boring device made for scrolling and running apps that are mandatory to participate in modern society.
  - x______________ 2mo ago
    > The phone is now a boring device made for scrolling and running apps that are mandatory to participate in modern society. ..a boring ¡spyware! device that tracks and listens to you! Also you forgot to mention that you're sharing your personal and device details to our 1,893 e21 partners! Really though, I'm just waiting for that AI agent that will help me shop online on my phone.. That's my vision of a perfect future!! /s (how is this boring?:))
  - aarmenaa 2mo ago
    > running apps that are mandatory to participate in modern society This right here is why I no longer consider custom ROMs. My phone is a tool critical to my daily life and I need it to function correctly nearly 100% of the time. Custom ROMs never really reach that bar in my experience. Also, the various forms of attestation allow corporations the power to punish me for having the temerity to modify my own property. Yet another way the tech industry has metastasized into a societal cancer.

by XiS 2mo ago

reorder9695 2mo ago

I'm trying to use lineage at the minute, but xiaomi has made it next to impossible to even unlock the bootloader on my phone, and even then I'd likely need to move at least one of my banks as I seem to remember it not working on lineage, and I'm the target audience for a custom rom. For mass appeal it needs to be much easier, and without any compatibility issues with stock android. I cannot believe it's somehow standard to not allow bootloader unlocking on a device owned by the user, I am fully aware of the risks of it but phone companies insist on treating me like a complete idiot.

jeroenhd 2mo ago

Now that manufacturers support their devices for 5+ years and ROMs are actually quite usable out of the box, the need for custom ROMs is much lower. Plus, some convenience apps require things like remote attestation, getting in the way of users. I suspect a significant chunk of the serious ROM user base is also lost to GrapheneOS these days. Even Samsung is fine with a quick debloating session you can do through WebUSB these days. The only phones I'd really need a custom ROM on these days are those certain Chinese brands that stuff their phone with absolute garbage. Compared to the days where a custom ROM would be faster and updates would end after half a year, if they happened at all, I barely have a reason to use a custom ROM these days.

realusername 2mo ago

It's a combination of anti-competitive practices from Google (Play Integrity, more and more features locked behind closed source binaries instead of AOSP) and manufacturer locking the bootloaders much more than in the past.

NoboruWataya 2mo ago

> NB: Since I'm on GrapheneOS now I haven't looked back Not to suggest GrapheneOS has become the new "standard" given it currently only supports Pixels, but I hear a lot more about GrapheneOS as the custom Android build than LineageOS, so I wonder if a lot of people have moved there from LineageOS. The other reason for a decline in custom ROMs may just be that apps are becoming more and more locked down. Banking apps are getting stricter all the time, so even the ones that work with custom ROMs today aren't guaranteed to work tomorrow. And more people probably use Google Wallet than ever, which also rules out custom ROMs AFAIK.

jorvi 2mo ago
[flagged]
- StrLght 2mo ago
  Could you please share some examples? I often see them being on point and highlighting important details. Majority of custom roms aren't taking security seriously, so I don't think there's anything wrong with calling them out on that.
  - jorvi 2mo ago
    [flagged]
    - pferde 2mo ago
      That's because Unified Attestation is unsalvageable. It's basically the same scam as Google's, with different owners doing (or wanting to do) the extortion.
    - StrLght 2mo ago
      I find it to be pretty reasonable, and also consistent with what GrapheneOS previously said. They were consistently against company-owned verification. I don't see anything offensive here: they aren't attacking individuals or projects, but rather attacking an approach that is harmful.

aguyongithub 2mo ago

Nowadays most devices can't be bootloader unlocked at all (see Huawei/BBK(Oppo,Vivo) in China) or can but with difficulties and, in some cases, little to no driver support (see Xiaomi or even Samsung's unlock procedures too, difficult to deal with from experience). So developers cannot develop ROMs as they cannot get on the phones anyway. This is partly done, I think, to prevent users from uninstalling bloatware (Chinese brands doing this mostly), since I've had to deal with this on a BBK branded phone, locked down so far even ADB can't touch the bloat. Google is also a part of this with play integrity and apps being blocked from working, so if you depend on Google or if you want to use that phone in your day-to-day life with apps from work or banking apps, it might not work great on the same phone. In my opinion I think it is mostly the manufacturers fighting this, Google is solvable but a locked bootloader isn't.

preisschild 2mo ago

Have used LOS for a decade but then switched to GrapheneOS a few years ago. Both projects are a godsend though.

pta2002 2mo ago

Honestly I just don't really care to anymore. I used to flash custom ROMs on all my phones because I could only afford cheap (100-200€) phones that were filled with bloatware, but ever since I started being able to afford a decent mid-range phone (Pixel 6a was the first one I didn't reflash) I just found out I wasn't actually missing anything, and I definitely enjoy things like contactless payments, and not having something randomly break every time I update.

noirscape 2mo ago

It's because of Google Play Services and the subsequent years long gutting of AOSPs application list. Google enforces OEMs to bundle their entire suite if they want to ship with Play Services and then uses that as an excuse to kill the basic AOSP phone apps that are outside of their ecosystem. That in turn harms the ability for Custom ROMs to ship basic apps like SMS readers, phone dialers and similar such, all of which used to be (maybe some still are, but they're all very much not well maintained) part of AOSP. If there's any silver lining, the upcoming play service blockade to install your own software on Android is likely going to at least create a burst of users for older devices. The actual numbers are frankly even more disappointing - these numbers are heavily pushed up up by waydroid, which is an emulator for Android apps on Desktop Computing. More than half of the US installs is running Waydroid, with the actual most used real device in the US being nx_tab... which is LineageOS for the Nintendo Switch. That's a difference of 180k and 12k btw. The most used actual phone in the US for LineageOS is beyondx, which is the codename for the Galaxy S10 5g, a device that at a glance stopped being sold last year. China by contrast fares much better when it comes to LineageOS (as Google Play Services isn't allowed in the country by export controls, the control from Google isn't nearly as strong there); the most used device there is actually a phone, the Xiaomi Mi 8 (dipper) and right behind it, the Xiaomi Mi 10T(/Pro) codenamed apollon. Final country worth mentioning is Brazil, which apparently really likes the moto g7 power (ocean), a phone from roughly the same period as the Galaxy S10 5g. Vietnam is also relatively high, with the Galaxy S7 (herolte) being the most used device. Russia is just a case where it's basically all waydroid users - not real phones. At least from my understanding of the world, most of these numbers make sense if you consider them in proximity to US power, financial capabilities making phones last longer than their official support dates and just a rough idea of what phone brands are popular in which country.

ekr 2mo ago

I used to be a long time lineageos (and before that, cyanogenmod) user. Phones always felt faster, smoother, and with better battery life without all the bloat. Felt more secure too. But at some point, I had a few apps that stopped working with unofficial ROMs, or with rooted phones. For a while, I played with magisk root hiding, but the play integrity api kept changing, it was just a hassle. Not worth it. So now I have two phones. One with lineage, and my daily driver with a factory ROM.

rascul 2mo ago

From what I understand, my phone's 4G won't work with lineage os and either of the two cell providers that have reception in my area so it's basically unusable for me. I would like to use it but I effectively can't.

khurs 2mo ago

> or maybe there's some new standard. China developed Harmony OS in response to American banning some of their brands from using Google Play. https://www.huaweicentral.com/huawei-harmonyos-once-again-overtakes-ios-by-19-share-hike/ https://www.huaweicentral.com/huawei-harmonyos-once-again-ov...

rk06 2mo ago

a significant contribution is due to android companies not allowing bootloader to be unlocked and then not providing kernel sources, making any development very hard, and many times impossible.

rbits 2mo ago

My phone's bootloader is unlocked but LineageOS doesn't support it (Zenfone 9). I would use it if I could.

gucci-on-fleek 2mo ago

- Spoofing SafetyNet used to be trivial, and not many apps depended on it; whereas these days, it's between hard and impossible to spoof Play Integrity, and it feels like much more apps depend on it. (At least, that's why I stopped rooting my phone.) - If you want a non-bloated, mostly-AOSP ROM with updates for many years, installing LineageOS (or another third-party ROM) used to be the only option; whereas these days, the Pixel phones give you most of this, and you can just buy these in a store instead of needing to manually flash a ROM. - The stock ROMs from most manufacturers are less horrible than they used to be. I'm not saying that they're great now, but there's a pretty huge difference between most new phones today and a KitKat-era cheap Samsung phone. - As you said, I suspect that GrapheneOS has supplanted LineageOS for many of the enthusiast users.

Ampersander 2mo ago
I believe a lot of the enthusiasm we had at the start of the smartphone age is also now gone. The phone is now a boring device made for scrolling and running apps that are mandatory to participate in modern society.
- x______________ 2mo ago
  > The phone is now a boring device made for scrolling and running apps that are mandatory to participate in modern society. ..a boring ¡spyware! device that tracks and listens to you! Also you forgot to mention that you're sharing your personal and device details to our 1,893 e21 partners! Really though, I'm just waiting for that AI agent that will help me shop online on my phone.. That's my vision of a perfect future!! /s (how is this boring?:))
- aarmenaa 2mo ago
  > running apps that are mandatory to participate in modern society This right here is why I no longer consider custom ROMs. My phone is a tool critical to my daily life and I need it to function correctly nearly 100% of the time. Custom ROMs never really reach that bar in my experience. Also, the various forms of attestation allow corporations the power to punish me for having the temerity to modify my own property. Yet another way the tech industry has metastasized into a societal cancer.