7 ms·

So to play devil's advocate... were you taking your eyes off the road for too long? There are many many poor drivers and many many distracted drivers out there

So to play devil's advocate... were you taking your eyes off the road for too long? There are many many poor drivers and many many distracted drivers out there. I'm not accusing you of one, but maybe a little bit of self-introspection may be necessary.

gotski 2mo ago
I had a similar situation with a rental car, driving on winding roads. The beeping happened periodically as I was driving around hairpin bends, and the eye detection was triggered by me turning my head to look towards the oncoming sharp corner. Not the best situation to have a "safety" alert start chastising you!
- afandian 2mo ago
  I wonder if it’s malicious compliance on the part of the manufacturers. They can trivially determine if their tech is effective. Making it mandatory, despite the problems they must surely know about, might produce some democratic pressure for more nuanced legislation.
  - Tagbert 2mo ago
    more likely that this is a harder problem than regulators assume.
  - mothballed 2mo ago
    Why would the manufacturers care though? You will still buy a car and now the barrier to foreign competition is higher, increasing profit, and the price goes up to pay for the dooo dads which increases financing kickbacks even if margin is same.
  - giantg2 2mo ago
    "might produce some democratic pressure for more nuanced legislation." Nah, you just get knee-jerk, feel-good laws because the masses never dig deeper and the elected only care about being reelected.
    - cucumber3732842 2mo ago
      These laws are not driven by masses. The masses do not want this crap. These laws are driven by busybodies who think they know what's best for the masses. The politicians and their advisors think they can get "free" (statistically nobody ever voted for the other guy over something so little) turnout from these busybodies in their favor by promising/doing this stuff. It's a sick numbers game and we all lose. Just like everything else these days.
      - giantg2 2mo ago
        If the masses were against this'll, the reps would be voted out or recalled.
        onetokeoverthe 2mo ago
        [dead]
      - pontussw 2mo ago
        I don’t think that this is true at all. These regulations are driven to reduce deaths and severe injuries that we have absolute and definitive statistics on - and do target the things we also know are the biggest drivers of accidents and outcomes such as high speed and lack of attention from drivers. I can see there being lots of valid complaints about implementation, but acting as if traffic injuries is not a major problem to be addressed and is just in the interest of busybodies is a completely unreasonable take.
  - b112 2mo ago
    They can trivially determine if their tech is effective. Can they? How many people real world test, and are they of all different heights and weights and face shapes too? Besides that, when I was a kid, I used to watch a lot of old movies on late night TV. Often these movies had car chases, and cars would go careening off of cliffs for no reason. I was always flummoxed, for we had no cliffs anywhere I'd ever been, and wondered where they were, and why people were always driving on them. When I visited California I suddenly realised "oh, they're everywhere here, just driving home". Another poster pointed out the alarm went off, if he looked to the corner he was driving towards. People dogfooding won't notice issues with that, if the local environment doesn't have such features. Could you test for all these things? Maybe, after realising what to test for. You'd then need a sort of regression test, too. All with people.
    - WalterBright 2mo ago
      > and cars would go careening off of cliffs for no reason Obviously, you're not familiar with Toonces, the Driving Cat.
      - b112 2mo ago
        That takes me back, thanks.
        WalterBright 2mo ago
        I miss the days when SNL was funny.
  - frollogaston 2mo ago
    It'd be a bold strategy, cause in the meantime everyone says "never buy a Kia!" (or whatever brand, but Kia is the usual suspect)
  - pontussw 2mo ago
    They aren’t for some weird reason being pressured to make systems that work. Even in this thread I see wild shit like people telling how the system completely doesn’t work for them, but no indication that they are pushing the manufacturer to fix it?? How can we have the kind of attitude that we let the manufacturers just get away with it if it’s a safety system? If the radio didn’t work, we’d be at the dealership bothering the service staff every day - but important safety tech? Blame the EU…?
    - duskdozer 2mo ago
      I don't think any complaint I've filed with a company has ever led to the situation being fixed. I still do it because I like futile exercises, but I know it won't change anything.
      - pontussw 2mo ago
        I don’t disagree with you there, and I do wish that legislators were also interested in that. How well the safety systems actually work in the real world should also be enforced by the law, not just their existence. With all the horror stories in this thread, it seems clear that manufacturers feel like they are able to get away with building the worst possible implementation of the system and then pointing the finger at the EU..
lawik 2mo ago
My in-laws Kia did this for me. It got really shitty when it got darker and presumably had to use an IR camera. And I am tall so the angle might have been bad. It flagged me every minute. Even when I intentionally focused right ahead. Tracking gaze is not immune to assorted failure modes.
- pontussw 2mo ago
  There we maybe need some regulation that the system should be working, and the manufacturers of the cars should be forced to recall and fix the system if it doesn’t work! The solution to bad implementation can’t be to just throw our hands in the air and say that Kia produces bad cars so therefore we cannot introduce safety regulation
  - lazide 2mo ago
    Or, hear me out, just have a person drive and not try to micromanage them constantly with a shitty AI system?
    - pontussw 2mo ago
      You mean the status quo? > Each year road crashes generate about 120,000 fatalities and 2.4 million injuries in the European region of the World Health Organization. Road traffic injuries are the leading cause of death among adolescents and young adults. Whatever it is we are doing today, it is not working.
      - lazide 2mo ago
        And from having used these system and having them almost cause crashes? And with the increase in traffic fatalities roughly corresponding with their increased adoption? They clearly are not helping.
        pontussw 2mo ago
        Traffic fatalities and accidents have been going down, constantly. There is no increase in fatalities from adoption of these systems, at least not in the EU. EU statistics show a continuous downward trend over the last 25+ years with pretty much the only thing sticking out being the Covid lockdowns. And all thanks to safety regulations! The fact is hundreds of thousands of people are alive today thanks to traffic safety improvements, and probably millions have been spared from a life of suffering with major injuries.
chung8123 2mo ago
I rented a car with driver monitoring and it made me take my eyes off the road instead. Every beep and warning is a distraction and it these systems don't work. Even if you are looking at the road and driving correctly it is flashing a warning up.
monknomo 2mo ago
yeah, my car doesn't like it when I look more than 2 cars ahead, or if I am looking uphill (because I am driving uphill)
deleted 2mo ago
[deleted]

gotski 2mo ago

I had a similar situation with a rental car, driving on winding roads. The beeping happened periodically as I was driving around hairpin bends, and the eye detection was triggered by me turning my head to look towards the oncoming sharp corner. Not the best situation to have a "safety" alert start chastising you!

afandian 2mo ago
I wonder if it’s malicious compliance on the part of the manufacturers. They can trivially determine if their tech is effective. Making it mandatory, despite the problems they must surely know about, might produce some democratic pressure for more nuanced legislation.
- Tagbert 2mo ago
  more likely that this is a harder problem than regulators assume.
- mothballed 2mo ago
  Why would the manufacturers care though? You will still buy a car and now the barrier to foreign competition is higher, increasing profit, and the price goes up to pay for the dooo dads which increases financing kickbacks even if margin is same.
- giantg2 2mo ago
  "might produce some democratic pressure for more nuanced legislation." Nah, you just get knee-jerk, feel-good laws because the masses never dig deeper and the elected only care about being reelected.
  - cucumber3732842 2mo ago
    These laws are not driven by masses. The masses do not want this crap. These laws are driven by busybodies who think they know what's best for the masses. The politicians and their advisors think they can get "free" (statistically nobody ever voted for the other guy over something so little) turnout from these busybodies in their favor by promising/doing this stuff. It's a sick numbers game and we all lose. Just like everything else these days.
    - giantg2 2mo ago
      If the masses were against this'll, the reps would be voted out or recalled.
      - onetokeoverthe 2mo ago
        [dead]
    - pontussw 2mo ago
      I don’t think that this is true at all. These regulations are driven to reduce deaths and severe injuries that we have absolute and definitive statistics on - and do target the things we also know are the biggest drivers of accidents and outcomes such as high speed and lack of attention from drivers. I can see there being lots of valid complaints about implementation, but acting as if traffic injuries is not a major problem to be addressed and is just in the interest of busybodies is a completely unreasonable take.
- b112 2mo ago
  They can trivially determine if their tech is effective. Can they? How many people real world test, and are they of all different heights and weights and face shapes too? Besides that, when I was a kid, I used to watch a lot of old movies on late night TV. Often these movies had car chases, and cars would go careening off of cliffs for no reason. I was always flummoxed, for we had no cliffs anywhere I'd ever been, and wondered where they were, and why people were always driving on them. When I visited California I suddenly realised "oh, they're everywhere here, just driving home". Another poster pointed out the alarm went off, if he looked to the corner he was driving towards. People dogfooding won't notice issues with that, if the local environment doesn't have such features. Could you test for all these things? Maybe, after realising what to test for. You'd then need a sort of regression test, too. All with people.
  - WalterBright 2mo ago
    > and cars would go careening off of cliffs for no reason Obviously, you're not familiar with Toonces, the Driving Cat.
    - b112 2mo ago
      That takes me back, thanks.
      - WalterBright 2mo ago
        I miss the days when SNL was funny.
- frollogaston 2mo ago
  It'd be a bold strategy, cause in the meantime everyone says "never buy a Kia!" (or whatever brand, but Kia is the usual suspect)
- pontussw 2mo ago
  They aren’t for some weird reason being pressured to make systems that work. Even in this thread I see wild shit like people telling how the system completely doesn’t work for them, but no indication that they are pushing the manufacturer to fix it?? How can we have the kind of attitude that we let the manufacturers just get away with it if it’s a safety system? If the radio didn’t work, we’d be at the dealership bothering the service staff every day - but important safety tech? Blame the EU…?
  - duskdozer 2mo ago
    I don't think any complaint I've filed with a company has ever led to the situation being fixed. I still do it because I like futile exercises, but I know it won't change anything.
    - pontussw 2mo ago
      I don’t disagree with you there, and I do wish that legislators were also interested in that. How well the safety systems actually work in the real world should also be enforced by the law, not just their existence. With all the horror stories in this thread, it seems clear that manufacturers feel like they are able to get away with building the worst possible implementation of the system and then pointing the finger at the EU..

lawik 2mo ago

My in-laws Kia did this for me. It got really shitty when it got darker and presumably had to use an IR camera. And I am tall so the angle might have been bad. It flagged me every minute. Even when I intentionally focused right ahead. Tracking gaze is not immune to assorted failure modes.

pontussw 2mo ago
There we maybe need some regulation that the system should be working, and the manufacturers of the cars should be forced to recall and fix the system if it doesn’t work! The solution to bad implementation can’t be to just throw our hands in the air and say that Kia produces bad cars so therefore we cannot introduce safety regulation
- lazide 2mo ago
  Or, hear me out, just have a person drive and not try to micromanage them constantly with a shitty AI system?
  - pontussw 2mo ago
    You mean the status quo? > Each year road crashes generate about 120,000 fatalities and 2.4 million injuries in the European region of the World Health Organization. Road traffic injuries are the leading cause of death among adolescents and young adults. Whatever it is we are doing today, it is not working.
    - lazide 2mo ago
      And from having used these system and having them almost cause crashes? And with the increase in traffic fatalities roughly corresponding with their increased adoption? They clearly are not helping.
      - pontussw 2mo ago
        Traffic fatalities and accidents have been going down, constantly. There is no increase in fatalities from adoption of these systems, at least not in the EU. EU statistics show a continuous downward trend over the last 25+ years with pretty much the only thing sticking out being the Covid lockdowns. And all thanks to safety regulations! The fact is hundreds of thousands of people are alive today thanks to traffic safety improvements, and probably millions have been spared from a life of suffering with major injuries.

chung8123 2mo ago

I rented a car with driver monitoring and it made me take my eyes off the road instead. Every beep and warning is a distraction and it these systems don't work. Even if you are looking at the road and driving correctly it is flashing a warning up.

monknomo 2mo ago

yeah, my car doesn't like it when I look more than 2 cars ahead, or if I am looking uphill (because I am driving uphill)

deleted 2mo ago

[deleted]