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I'm using a Librem 5 as my daily phone. PureOS is actively developed and based on Debian. Monthly development updates are published here: https://puri.sm/posts/

by janvlug 3mo ago

I'm using a Librem 5 as my daily phone. PureOS is actively developed and based on Debian. Monthly development updates are published here: https://puri.sm/posts/tag/advanced-readers/ https://puri.sm/posts/tag/advanced-readers/ Personally, I do not use Android apps on the Librem 5, but Waydroid is available in the PureOS repository. Waydroid is a container-based approach to boot a full Android system on regular GNU/Linux systems running Wayland based desktop environments (like PureOS). PureOS also provides convergence via Phosh. Convergence means here that the same app can be used on a phone and on a big screen, the GUI adjusts to the available screen size. Phosh aims to provide a daily-usable, robust and easy to use graphical user environment for mobile devices running mainline Linux. Phosh was originally initiated by developers from Purism for the Librem 5 phone but is nowadays used on many different devices covering smartphones, tablets and convertibles. It has even been seen on laptops.

grapheneos 3mo ago
> Waydroid is a container-based approach to boot a full Android system on regular GNU/Linux systems running Wayland based desktop environments (like PureOS). No, it's only a partially working form of Android with the privacy/security model largely disabled and poor app compatibility. Waydroid is based on an ancient release of Android and disables the SELinux-based privacy/security model. It doesn't contain apps from each other and has far less protection for the Linux kernel from the apps. It has poor app compatibility and isn't a good approach to running Android in another OS. ChromeOS made a proper better Android container not losing the privacy/security model but migrated to using hardware accelerated virtual machines. It makes a lot more sense to use a VM since current era smartphone hardware fully supports it. > PureOS also provides convergence via Phosh. Convergence means here that the same app can be used on a phone and on a big screen, the GUI adjusts to the available screen size. Android Open Source Project has a desktop mode. It has a hardware-based virtualization layer for running desktop Linux applications too including GPU acceleration support. > Phosh aims to provide a daily-usable, robust and easy to use graphical user environment for mobile devices running mainline Linux. Android runs fine on mainline Linux. It doesn't require special kernels. That's tied to specific hardware rather than Android. PureOS has far worse privacy and drastically worse security compared to iOS or AOSP. It's bringing the traditional atrocious privacy and security of desktops to mobile. Librem 5 also combines that with extraordinarily insecure hardware missing basic firmware updates and security protections. As a whole, these make it drastically easier to exploit devices. That includes going back to disk encryption which doesn't work for the average user due to them not using a strong passphrase and not protecting against data extraction with physical access unless the device is turned off.
baranul 3mo ago
The way out is for people to support the various Linux phones. These Linux distros need to support and push Android compatibility, so that people can load F-Droid, Aurora, and Obtainium on them and get most of the Android apps they want. The ability to use both Linux and Android apps should satisfy nearly everyone. A strong message of consumer defiance needs to be sent.
- HybridStatAnim8 3mo ago
  The Android family of operating systems and the forks made from the android open source project are all linux distributions, and linux phones. Using desktop linux phones and trying to force that as a norm would set privacy and security back substantially. The inverse of what you suggest, which is Android with desktop linux app compatibility, would be a huge step forward, and is already much closer than you might think. Modern phones have substantially better VM support in the hardware than in previous models, and it is maturing at a very fast rate. We would be able to run linux VMs on Android, paired with desktop mode, with evidence for USB passthrough for an externel GPU in AOSP There is also evidence that we will be able to put desktop linux app icons on the Android homescreen and using them in an app-like fashion. This would use the more secure host to run the VM for the less secure OS.
  - baranul 3mo ago
    The problem is that the usage of Android should not be at the expense of users and developers rights to choose, freedom, or privacy. With that line crossed, Android becomes an unattractive option. With an increase in mobile Linux (e.g. Mobian and others), they can and will get better. Customers and developers choice and freedom are being nullified, because there are few other options. That has to change.
    - HybridStatAnim8 3mo ago
      Android is not at the expense of either freedom or privacy. Desktop Linux OSs come at the cost of both. It would be better to direct effort to AOSP projects as it is a much better base to build from.

by janvlug 3mo ago

grapheneos 3mo ago

> Waydroid is a container-based approach to boot a full Android system on regular GNU/Linux systems running Wayland based desktop environments (like PureOS). No, it's only a partially working form of Android with the privacy/security model largely disabled and poor app compatibility. Waydroid is based on an ancient release of Android and disables the SELinux-based privacy/security model. It doesn't contain apps from each other and has far less protection for the Linux kernel from the apps. It has poor app compatibility and isn't a good approach to running Android in another OS. ChromeOS made a proper better Android container not losing the privacy/security model but migrated to using hardware accelerated virtual machines. It makes a lot more sense to use a VM since current era smartphone hardware fully supports it. > PureOS also provides convergence via Phosh. Convergence means here that the same app can be used on a phone and on a big screen, the GUI adjusts to the available screen size. Android Open Source Project has a desktop mode. It has a hardware-based virtualization layer for running desktop Linux applications too including GPU acceleration support. > Phosh aims to provide a daily-usable, robust and easy to use graphical user environment for mobile devices running mainline Linux. Android runs fine on mainline Linux. It doesn't require special kernels. That's tied to specific hardware rather than Android. PureOS has far worse privacy and drastically worse security compared to iOS or AOSP. It's bringing the traditional atrocious privacy and security of desktops to mobile. Librem 5 also combines that with extraordinarily insecure hardware missing basic firmware updates and security protections. As a whole, these make it drastically easier to exploit devices. That includes going back to disk encryption which doesn't work for the average user due to them not using a strong passphrase and not protecting against data extraction with physical access unless the device is turned off.

baranul 3mo ago

The way out is for people to support the various Linux phones. These Linux distros need to support and push Android compatibility, so that people can load F-Droid, Aurora, and Obtainium on them and get most of the Android apps they want. The ability to use both Linux and Android apps should satisfy nearly everyone. A strong message of consumer defiance needs to be sent.

HybridStatAnim8 3mo ago
The Android family of operating systems and the forks made from the android open source project are all linux distributions, and linux phones. Using desktop linux phones and trying to force that as a norm would set privacy and security back substantially. The inverse of what you suggest, which is Android with desktop linux app compatibility, would be a huge step forward, and is already much closer than you might think. Modern phones have substantially better VM support in the hardware than in previous models, and it is maturing at a very fast rate. We would be able to run linux VMs on Android, paired with desktop mode, with evidence for USB passthrough for an externel GPU in AOSP There is also evidence that we will be able to put desktop linux app icons on the Android homescreen and using them in an app-like fashion. This would use the more secure host to run the VM for the less secure OS.
- baranul 3mo ago
  The problem is that the usage of Android should not be at the expense of users and developers rights to choose, freedom, or privacy. With that line crossed, Android becomes an unattractive option. With an increase in mobile Linux (e.g. Mobian and others), they can and will get better. Customers and developers choice and freedom are being nullified, because there are few other options. That has to change.
  - HybridStatAnim8 3mo ago
    Android is not at the expense of either freedom or privacy. Desktop Linux OSs come at the cost of both. It would be better to direct effort to AOSP projects as it is a much better base to build from.