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It doesn't generate private returns but investing in your worker population definitely nets returns for the public. Also, some might say that upending the de f

It doesn't generate private returns but investing in your worker population definitely nets returns for the public. Also, some might say that upending the de facto copyright regime in favour of AI companies was an altruistic gift.

cindyllm 3mo ago
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scoofy 3mo ago
If you want to "invest" in society and get a return, by all means, buy government bonds and support the government's policies to do these things. You get a return, and the government gets money to invest in society. It's a $30 trillion dollar industry.
- civet_java 3mo ago
  I'm not sure I understand your point. What benefits does treating social/national governence as an industry bring to society? Besides the govt funds it operations through taxation in addition to debt. Your unstated assumption that investments in AI were private and therefore beyond question simply isn't true. The AI industry's profits depend to a large degree vast textual corpuses that they acquired and trained on in either straight up illegal or at the least in legally murky contexts; public and private knowledge form the backbone of these enterprises. Said industry then serves AI models to customers via data centers that again off load the cost of inference to the public. Of course, AI companies could step up pay up their fair share and people will happily treat the prerogatives of private enterprise as private. But until then I think certain quarters of society will continue to believe, rightfully so in my opinion, that AI companies are on the hook for unacknowledged debt. Of course morality doesn't inform law so the current situation isn't illegal despite how egregious it is. But the law can only attempt to deliver justice, it can't guarantee it. Which is why open, honest, collaborative discussions are important to have exactly now.
  - scoofy 3mo ago
    If you think AI is built on copyright infringement, that's fine, and I somewhat agree with you. That's immaterial to the argument. My point is that investment here -- "the outlay of money usually for income or profit" -- isn't just giving people stuff altruistically. Investors, here investing in AI, are trying to get a return on their investment. They aren't just spending money to spend it.

cindyllm 3mo ago

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scoofy 3mo ago

If you want to "invest" in society and get a return, by all means, buy government bonds and support the government's policies to do these things. You get a return, and the government gets money to invest in society. It's a $30 trillion dollar industry.

civet_java 3mo ago
I'm not sure I understand your point. What benefits does treating social/national governence as an industry bring to society? Besides the govt funds it operations through taxation in addition to debt. Your unstated assumption that investments in AI were private and therefore beyond question simply isn't true. The AI industry's profits depend to a large degree vast textual corpuses that they acquired and trained on in either straight up illegal or at the least in legally murky contexts; public and private knowledge form the backbone of these enterprises. Said industry then serves AI models to customers via data centers that again off load the cost of inference to the public. Of course, AI companies could step up pay up their fair share and people will happily treat the prerogatives of private enterprise as private. But until then I think certain quarters of society will continue to believe, rightfully so in my opinion, that AI companies are on the hook for unacknowledged debt. Of course morality doesn't inform law so the current situation isn't illegal despite how egregious it is. But the law can only attempt to deliver justice, it can't guarantee it. Which is why open, honest, collaborative discussions are important to have exactly now.
- scoofy 3mo ago
  If you think AI is built on copyright infringement, that's fine, and I somewhat agree with you. That's immaterial to the argument. My point is that investment here -- "the outlay of money usually for income or profit" -- isn't just giving people stuff altruistically. Investors, here investing in AI, are trying to get a return on their investment. They aren't just spending money to spend it.