7 ms·

If they gave the engineers appropriate severance packages, then they're at least out that much as a stupidity tax, but that's probably the most we can expect as

by yifanl 3mo ago

If they gave the engineers appropriate severance packages, then they're at least out that much as a stupidity tax, but that's probably the most we can expect as far as consequences for the exec suite.

mikepurvis 3mo ago
Presumably they're also out the top 10-20% of talent which immediately found jobs elsewhere and would have little interest in returning to Ford to work under such incompetent management.
- calgoo 3mo ago
  They could always be hired as contractors at x5 the cost for a fixed contract over 2 years to train the ai.
  - thewebguyd 3mo ago
    Wouldn't be a bad deal tbh depending on age and how much you have already for financial independence in retirement. If my employer offered me a deal that would allow me to retire early, comfortably, to train my AI replacement, I'd take it. If they succeed, well I'd have gotten laid off anyway. If they fail, I get to laugh all the way to the bank with my newly found free time.
    - 9dev 3mo ago
      Sounds like meta would be just the company for you!
- Avicebron 3mo ago
  This sentiment feels like a relic of a previous age. Yes _maybe_ but it's also equally likely that the best they laid off was on the ropes for months trying to battle ghost job spam and AI filters. It's almost shaming anyone who isn't hired someone immediately as deficient and "not the best". Honestly the conversation should be focused on how the execs can he made responsible.
  - pojzon 3mo ago
    Im not calling for any action, but that kid doing something about Healthcare CEO - that did help.
    - suttontom 3mo ago
      How did it help?
      - pojzon 3mo ago
        It did send a message. If the message was sent on a daily basis this world would look completely different.
    - civet_java 3mo ago
      I am quite sympathetic to your position. Seeing those who manage to evade accountability consistently paying a heavy personal price was immensely satisfying. But at the same time, I don't think it resulted in any structural changes that minimise the proportion of accountability-evaders plauging society. Ideally of course everyone, irrespective of any immutable traits they may have, gets to enjoy a healthy, satisfying, and stable life with plently of avenues for upward mobility. Short of that ideal, a society which equally burdens the rich and poor with devastating, seemingly random, unavoidable life-chaning events is decidedly better than one which only affects the poor. So for these reasons I don't advocate for the actions of "the kid" but I don't think the consequences of his actions were in any way "bad" per se.
  - mikepurvis 3mo ago
    That's fair. My intent was not to shame the "bottom 80%" which is of course most people, but rather to make a call for accountability. Like specifically the execs should have to answer to their board not just for the wasted time and severance packages, but also for the cost of losing some staff permanently with these shenanigans.
- jghn 3mo ago
  Or, if they're anything like me, even if I hadn't yet moved along they'd find that for them my price has gone up in the interim time period.
drob518 3mo ago
There is a huge cost for this either way (severance packages, yes, but also lost productivity, reduced team coherence, etc), but that unfortunately doesn’t necessarily translate to a political cost for the managers involved in pushing the dumb idea, particularly if the CEO was pressuring everyone for cost savings. They will escape by saying, “We did it because everyone else is doing it and we were told it was the right thing. How were we to know that it wouldn’t work?”
- thewebguyd 3mo ago
  > We did it because everyone else is doing it and we were told it was the right thing. How were we to know that it wouldn’t work?” And why does the board/shareholders allow a CEO to continue into their position by just following everyone else? I'm sure things are different at massive scales, but I run my own side business (photography). I watch the local market, and I have the attitude of "Whatever everyone else is doing, I want to do the opposite." and it's worked for me so far. The area doesn't need yet another "dark and moody" photographer with boring sepia edits, blurry photos with a film preset, and the same exact font and colors on the website as everyone else. You don't become a pioneer in your industry by just cargo culting everyone else. It's low effort leadership and if I were on the board it certainly would not inspire my confidence in their ability to run a company. You're telling me not a single person at the table asked "Do we have these engineers' institutional knowledge documented somewhere before we fire them all??"
  - boredatoms 3mo ago
    Boards are usually filled with ex-CEOs who also thought these dumb bets were good
    - drob518 3mo ago
      And the board is pulling down $300k per year or more for sitting in maybe 11 meetings per year and participating in a “comp committee” where they just review data and recommendations from comp consultants and agree to whatever the consultants tell them. So, why rock the boat?
rootnod3 3mo ago
Not really those execs paying that stupidity tax though. They still get their bonuses. Pretty much zero consequences.
freediddy 3mo ago
If they take the job they likely need to give back some or all of the severance package.

by yifanl 3mo ago

mikepurvis 3mo ago

Presumably they're also out the top 10-20% of talent which immediately found jobs elsewhere and would have little interest in returning to Ford to work under such incompetent management.

calgoo 3mo ago
They could always be hired as contractors at x5 the cost for a fixed contract over 2 years to train the ai.
- thewebguyd 3mo ago
  Wouldn't be a bad deal tbh depending on age and how much you have already for financial independence in retirement. If my employer offered me a deal that would allow me to retire early, comfortably, to train my AI replacement, I'd take it. If they succeed, well I'd have gotten laid off anyway. If they fail, I get to laugh all the way to the bank with my newly found free time.
  - 9dev 3mo ago
    Sounds like meta would be just the company for you!
Avicebron 3mo ago
This sentiment feels like a relic of a previous age. Yes _maybe_ but it's also equally likely that the best they laid off was on the ropes for months trying to battle ghost job spam and AI filters. It's almost shaming anyone who isn't hired someone immediately as deficient and "not the best". Honestly the conversation should be focused on how the execs can he made responsible.
- pojzon 3mo ago
  Im not calling for any action, but that kid doing something about Healthcare CEO - that did help.
  - suttontom 3mo ago
    How did it help?
    - pojzon 3mo ago
      It did send a message. If the message was sent on a daily basis this world would look completely different.
  - civet_java 3mo ago
    I am quite sympathetic to your position. Seeing those who manage to evade accountability consistently paying a heavy personal price was immensely satisfying. But at the same time, I don't think it resulted in any structural changes that minimise the proportion of accountability-evaders plauging society. Ideally of course everyone, irrespective of any immutable traits they may have, gets to enjoy a healthy, satisfying, and stable life with plently of avenues for upward mobility. Short of that ideal, a society which equally burdens the rich and poor with devastating, seemingly random, unavoidable life-chaning events is decidedly better than one which only affects the poor. So for these reasons I don't advocate for the actions of "the kid" but I don't think the consequences of his actions were in any way "bad" per se.
- mikepurvis 3mo ago
  That's fair. My intent was not to shame the "bottom 80%" which is of course most people, but rather to make a call for accountability. Like specifically the execs should have to answer to their board not just for the wasted time and severance packages, but also for the cost of losing some staff permanently with these shenanigans.
jghn 3mo ago
Or, if they're anything like me, even if I hadn't yet moved along they'd find that for them my price has gone up in the interim time period.

drob518 3mo ago

There is a huge cost for this either way (severance packages, yes, but also lost productivity, reduced team coherence, etc), but that unfortunately doesn’t necessarily translate to a political cost for the managers involved in pushing the dumb idea, particularly if the CEO was pressuring everyone for cost savings. They will escape by saying, “We did it because everyone else is doing it and we were told it was the right thing. How were we to know that it wouldn’t work?”

thewebguyd 3mo ago
> We did it because everyone else is doing it and we were told it was the right thing. How were we to know that it wouldn’t work?” And why does the board/shareholders allow a CEO to continue into their position by just following everyone else? I'm sure things are different at massive scales, but I run my own side business (photography). I watch the local market, and I have the attitude of "Whatever everyone else is doing, I want to do the opposite." and it's worked for me so far. The area doesn't need yet another "dark and moody" photographer with boring sepia edits, blurry photos with a film preset, and the same exact font and colors on the website as everyone else. You don't become a pioneer in your industry by just cargo culting everyone else. It's low effort leadership and if I were on the board it certainly would not inspire my confidence in their ability to run a company. You're telling me not a single person at the table asked "Do we have these engineers' institutional knowledge documented somewhere before we fire them all??"
- boredatoms 3mo ago
  Boards are usually filled with ex-CEOs who also thought these dumb bets were good
  - drob518 3mo ago
    And the board is pulling down $300k per year or more for sitting in maybe 11 meetings per year and participating in a “comp committee” where they just review data and recommendations from comp consultants and agree to whatever the consultants tell them. So, why rock the boat?

rootnod3 3mo ago

Not really those execs paying that stupidity tax though. They still get their bonuses. Pretty much zero consequences.

freediddy 3mo ago

If they take the job they likely need to give back some or all of the severance package.