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So, ends justifies the means. Got it. I guess I’m old enough to remember when 99.9% of us on hacker news were…well, hackers. We valued privacy and freedom over

So, ends justifies the means. Got it. I guess I’m old enough to remember when 99.9% of us on hacker news were…well, hackers. We valued privacy and freedom over surveillance and “results.” I miss those days.

gottorf 3mo ago
> We valued privacy and freedom over surveillance and “results.” The relative value of one over the other depends on the absolute value of either. In a Mad Max scenario, very few would value the principles of privacy and freedom over the immediate need to reestablish basic order. Take auto theft as an example. Depending on how old you are, the recent spike in auto theft is either "nothing compared to the 80s" or "entirely unacceptable in civilized society"; in select cities, the rate almost tripled in five years[0] (an incredible jump), though remaining well below the historical peak. However, case clearance rates are at an all time low, which I'm sure furthers frustration for the victims. That is, you're statistically less likely to be a victim of auto theft today than during the historical peak, but if you are, you're statistically more likely to be SOL. You're probably approaching this from a civil libertarian point of view, but the Constitution is not a suicide pact[1]. Members of society who collectively uphold the law also have a vested interested in the maintenance of the conditions that would further perpetuate upholding the law, i.e. law and order. [0]: https://counciloncj.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/motor-vehicle-theft-factsheet-2.pdf https://counciloncj.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/motor-veh... [1]: Terminiello v. Chicago, 337 U.S. 1 (1949)
Planktonne 3mo ago
HN has always been associated with tech entrepreneurship rather than 'hacker' in the way that it's commonly used. I'm not sure there was ever a time when 99.9% of the userbase, or even a much smaller percentage, actually valued privacy and freedom rather than seeing them as obstacles to value extraction.
wil421 3mo ago
This is a SV startup forum more than a hacker forum.

gottorf 3mo ago

> We valued privacy and freedom over surveillance and “results.” The relative value of one over the other depends on the absolute value of either. In a Mad Max scenario, very few would value the principles of privacy and freedom over the immediate need to reestablish basic order. Take auto theft as an example. Depending on how old you are, the recent spike in auto theft is either "nothing compared to the 80s" or "entirely unacceptable in civilized society"; in select cities, the rate almost tripled in five years[0] (an incredible jump), though remaining well below the historical peak. However, case clearance rates are at an all time low, which I'm sure furthers frustration for the victims. That is, you're statistically less likely to be a victim of auto theft today than during the historical peak, but if you are, you're statistically more likely to be SOL. You're probably approaching this from a civil libertarian point of view, but the Constitution is not a suicide pact[1]. Members of society who collectively uphold the law also have a vested interested in the maintenance of the conditions that would further perpetuate upholding the law, i.e. law and order. [0]: https://counciloncj.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/motor-vehicle-theft-factsheet-2.pdf https://counciloncj.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/motor-veh... [1]: Terminiello v. Chicago, 337 U.S. 1 (1949)

Planktonne 3mo ago

HN has always been associated with tech entrepreneurship rather than 'hacker' in the way that it's commonly used. I'm not sure there was ever a time when 99.9% of the userbase, or even a much smaller percentage, actually valued privacy and freedom rather than seeing them as obstacles to value extraction.

wil421 3mo ago

This is a SV startup forum more than a hacker forum.