6 ms·

I swear we're just going to end up with Java again.

by DaanDL 3mo ago

mfru 3mo ago
At this point I think that would be a more sane outcome than whatever it is we have right now.
- tonyedgecombe 3mo ago
  We were writing and shipping desktop applications with it back in the nineties. Although many of the arguments against it were similar to the arguments against Electron today.
  - ivell 3mo ago
    I think the UI look and feel was very ugly for many users and that caused its demise. The cross platform skin was ugly. The native skins were in the uncanny valley. The framework was reasonably good for its time. By the time good looking UI frameworks came, the bad reputation was already set.
    - frou_dh 3mo ago
      Even the later JavaFX was a tasteless exercise. I opened some apps and you could tell within 1 second that something was wrong because all the text was using fugly non-platform-native (or somehow screwed up) text rendering.
    - tonyedgecombe 3mo ago
      I think SWT was the best option if you wanted native controls.
  - LtWorf 3mo ago
    Yeah back then a java application could take several minutes to open.
wiseowise 3mo ago
Java would be a killer platform if they shipped built-in, tauri-like, UI.
- olcay_ 3mo ago
  There's Compose Multiplatform if you are willing to switch to Kotlin. Only caveat is that it uses Canvas rendering on web.
  - clumsysmurf 3mo ago
    Compose and AOT compiled binaries would be amazing (GraalVM Native Image kinda thing) but it doesn't look very easy at the moment. Leyden with a regular JVM might be the best we get.
    - EddieRingle 3mo ago
      Compose UI apps can be compiled to native binaries already, via Kotlin's LLVM backend, though at the moment only the macOS/iOS targets have proper (official) support. Last I looked (a few years ago now), the Linux and Windows targets shouldn't be too far off, since it's all built on top of Skia already, someone just needs to care enough to put in the work. (But since right now you already get coverage for all platforms between JVM and Wasm, not to mention hot reload support on the JVM, there's little motivation to do so.)
  - wiseowise 3mo ago
    Compose Multiplatform is just a worse Flutter.
DonHopkins 3mo ago
The Revenge of Javagator! https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19837817 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19837817
preommr 3mo ago
I will die on the hill that Java was a good language, and had the potential to leapfrog us from where we are by at least a decade. But it got hobbled by the awful, awful enterprise style culture, cultural misunderstanding of OOP (especially inheritance), and corporation shenanigans (fucking oracle).
- LtWorf 3mo ago
  I have nothing against java. But for some reason in my experience all the developers using it are low quality, and gave it the reputation it has.
  - steve_adams_86 3mo ago
    I think this is a selection bias speaking rather than a reasonable reflection of what goes on in the Java world. Some insanely sophisticated and high quality technologies are written with Java. The problem is like with JS or PHP, it is ubiquitous in many settings. There are a lot of people who can use it because it was the default language taught in CS programs, many corporate settings for decades, or similar. It’s the runtime for android devices. It’s everywhere. Of course you’ll encounter a lot of low quality developers. Your comment mostly indicates that you haven’t been fortunate enough to encounter the high quality Java devs, not that they don’t exist. They exist and they build world class software that backs massive systems like elastic search, Kafka, spark, or Cassandra.
    - LtWorf 3mo ago
      When I started to use elastic search I found out that with some incorrect queries you could "poison" the process entirely and it would respond incorrectly to every single query from that moment on, until you killed it and restarted it. They responded to my issue several years later. I had changed jobs and I couldn't care less any longer. If that's your example of quality… well…
      - steve_adams_86 3mo ago
abecedarius 3mo ago
[dead]
c-smile 3mo ago
It is better to be D language then - natively compiled and has superb meta programming features. Especially if to consider that I've added native D support to Sciter [1]. [1] https://terrainformatica.com/2026/06/05/ai-assisted-development-with-d-language-creating-sciter-sdk/ https://terrainformatica.com/2026/06/05/ai-assisted-developm...

I swear we're just going to end up with Java again.

by DaanDL 3mo ago

I swear we're just going to end up with Java again.

mfru 3mo ago

At this point I think that would be a more sane outcome than whatever it is we have right now.

tonyedgecombe 3mo ago
We were writing and shipping desktop applications with it back in the nineties. Although many of the arguments against it were similar to the arguments against Electron today.
- ivell 3mo ago
  I think the UI look and feel was very ugly for many users and that caused its demise. The cross platform skin was ugly. The native skins were in the uncanny valley. The framework was reasonably good for its time. By the time good looking UI frameworks came, the bad reputation was already set.
  - frou_dh 3mo ago
    Even the later JavaFX was a tasteless exercise. I opened some apps and you could tell within 1 second that something was wrong because all the text was using fugly non-platform-native (or somehow screwed up) text rendering.
  - tonyedgecombe 3mo ago
    I think SWT was the best option if you wanted native controls.
- LtWorf 3mo ago
  Yeah back then a java application could take several minutes to open.

wiseowise 3mo ago

Java would be a killer platform if they shipped built-in, tauri-like, UI.

olcay_ 3mo ago
There's Compose Multiplatform if you are willing to switch to Kotlin. Only caveat is that it uses Canvas rendering on web.
- clumsysmurf 3mo ago
  Compose and AOT compiled binaries would be amazing (GraalVM Native Image kinda thing) but it doesn't look very easy at the moment. Leyden with a regular JVM might be the best we get.
  - EddieRingle 3mo ago
    Compose UI apps can be compiled to native binaries already, via Kotlin's LLVM backend, though at the moment only the macOS/iOS targets have proper (official) support. Last I looked (a few years ago now), the Linux and Windows targets shouldn't be too far off, since it's all built on top of Skia already, someone just needs to care enough to put in the work. (But since right now you already get coverage for all platforms between JVM and Wasm, not to mention hot reload support on the JVM, there's little motivation to do so.)
- wiseowise 3mo ago
  Compose Multiplatform is just a worse Flutter.

DonHopkins 3mo ago

The Revenge of Javagator! https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19837817 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19837817

preommr 3mo ago

I will die on the hill that Java was a good language, and had the potential to leapfrog us from where we are by at least a decade. But it got hobbled by the awful, awful enterprise style culture, cultural misunderstanding of OOP (especially inheritance), and corporation shenanigans (fucking oracle).

LtWorf 3mo ago
I have nothing against java. But for some reason in my experience all the developers using it are low quality, and gave it the reputation it has.
- steve_adams_86 3mo ago
  I think this is a selection bias speaking rather than a reasonable reflection of what goes on in the Java world. Some insanely sophisticated and high quality technologies are written with Java. The problem is like with JS or PHP, it is ubiquitous in many settings. There are a lot of people who can use it because it was the default language taught in CS programs, many corporate settings for decades, or similar. It’s the runtime for android devices. It’s everywhere. Of course you’ll encounter a lot of low quality developers. Your comment mostly indicates that you haven’t been fortunate enough to encounter the high quality Java devs, not that they don’t exist. They exist and they build world class software that backs massive systems like elastic search, Kafka, spark, or Cassandra.
  - LtWorf 3mo ago
    When I started to use elastic search I found out that with some incorrect queries you could "poison" the process entirely and it would respond incorrectly to every single query from that moment on, until you killed it and restarted it. They responded to my issue several years later. I had changed jobs and I couldn't care less any longer. If that's your example of quality… well…
    - steve_adams_86 3mo ago

abecedarius 3mo ago

[dead]

c-smile 3mo ago

It is better to be D language then - natively compiled and has superb meta programming features. Especially if to consider that I've added native D support to Sciter [1]. [1] https://terrainformatica.com/2026/06/05/ai-assisted-development-with-d-language-creating-sciter-sdk/ https://terrainformatica.com/2026/06/05/ai-assisted-developm...