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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Economist_Democracy_Index https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Economist_Democracy_Index Probably tongue-in-cheek, but UK 18th,

by b3kart 3mo ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Economist_Democracy_Index https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Economist_Democracy_Index Probably tongue-in-cheek, but UK 18th, US joint 34th with Poland

solenoid0937 3mo ago
[flagged]
- JustSkyfall 3mo ago
  > In the UK you get thrown in prison for making a slightly unfriendly tweet. Do you? The closest thing I can think about is how someone was jailed for encouraging arson attacks on asylum hotels. I'd be extremely surprised if the US had zero cases of somebody receiving a police visit after threatening to kill the President or bomb a school or something... (FWIW I do think the UK needs stronger free speech protections, but saying that you'll be immediately jailed for writing unfriendly tweets is a huge stretch)
  - BoorishBears 3mo ago
    https://lordslibrary.parliament.uk/select-communications-offences-and-concerns-over-free-speech/ https://lordslibrary.parliament.uk/select-communications-off... Are they really making 12,000 arrests a year over tweets and posts?
  - subscribed 3mo ago
    Yes. And also you are threatened with prison for holding in front of a court a placard with [pretty much] a quote from the plaque displayed on the most important criminal court. You're threatened with arrest for holding empty placard. You're jailed for years for holding a zoom meeting planning a peaceful climate-emergency related demonstration. At the same time judge threatens the defendants with contempt of court sanctions if they dare to explain to juries why they planned to protest. You're jailed for opposing a genocide. You're jailed and called a terrorist for painting planes helping to bomb civilians - the exact same thing the sitting PM was defending a person in court some years ago (as a human rights lawyer, the irony). You're arrested for wearing a T-shirt "I support plasticine action" (not a typo, "Plasticine"). We could go for hours.
- 10xDev 3mo ago
  >the quality of discussion on HN has gone to shit, i miss when model released used to have actual informed takes from people that used them or substantive discussion about the system card Your comment earlier. Edit: also, not much change in the last 10 years in prison population. https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn04334/ https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn04...
  - solenoid0937 3mo ago
    https://lordslibrary.parliament.uk/select-communications-offences-and-concerns-over-free-speech/ https://lordslibrary.parliament.uk/select-communications-off... 12k people a year thrown in prison for spicy tweets
    - 10xDev 3mo ago
      So roughly 0.017% of the population. "Spicy tweets" including: sending false communications sending threatening communications sending or showing flashing images electronically to people with epilepsy intending to cause them harm (‘epilepsy trolling’) encouraging or assisting serious self-harm sending a photograph or film of a person’s genitals (‘cyberflashing’) sharing or threatening to share intimate photographs or film
      - solenoid0937 3mo ago
        Or a lot more commonly - critique of immigration policy
        matthewmacleod 3mo ago
        Why did you choose to lie about this today? I'm genuinely interesting – this is trivially obviously not true, so what motivated this?
        10xDev 3mo ago
        You are obviously invested in this narrative driven by Musk but you need to back it up properly.
- matthewmacleod 3mo ago
  In the UK you get thrown in prison for making a slightly unfriendly tweet. Freedom of speech simply does not exist. "These days if you say you're English you'll be arrested and you'll be thrown in jail." It's just not true. Where are you getting this nonsense from?
m0guz 3mo ago
> The Democracy Index published by the British media company We decided that we aren't one of those authoritarian countries.
- b3kart 3mo ago
  Ah, yes, the Economist, a famously government-controlled media outlet.
Petersipoi 3mo ago
> published by the British media company the Economist Group Haha, it's literally the first sentence of the Wikipedia page. That's fucking funny. Try again.
- tene80i 3mo ago
  Why is it funny? You think British media can’t be critical of the British government? They are famously merciless. Also, the economist is majority foreign owned, so try doing more than 1 second of research, or be more civil, or ideally both.
  - ebbi 3mo ago
    To be fair, BBC has hardly been that critical in the British governments' complicity in the genocide in Gaza. And their headlines covering Israeli atrocities (not even their own governments), is super passive.
    - tene80i 3mo ago
      But the parent point was that no British media could be critical of government policy. Picking an example that isn’t, on one area, doesn’t prove their point. [Edit] Granted though, the bbc isn’t merciless - that’s more the newspapers
  - dwb 3mo ago
    The Economist is very much part of the establishment, whoever they are owned by. It is not surprising that they would want to play down any idea that the UK is less “democratic”. Furthermore, The Economist is one of the main mouthpieces of British capitalism, and so their definition of “democracy” is going to be very much of the liberal, capital-friendly kind, which is not completely incompatible with some authoritarian tendencies.
    - tene80i 3mo ago
      The ranking isn’t published by the newspaper - it’s by the research and insights B2B company of the overall group. Regardless of what assumptions you have about the newspaper (elite, yes, but I’m unclear on why you think fierce liberalism is likely to mean they don’t really value democracy), the B2B unit sells data - they’re as likely to skew this ranking as they are at which countries are better at rail infrastructure. Perhaps their definition of democracy is indeed flawed though - no need to speculate, go read their methodology.
sd9 3mo ago
Are the sibling comments astroturfed? This seems like such a bizarre thing to be talking about in relation to an Anthropic model release. As someone from the UK, I don't feel like I'm living in an authoritarian country. And yet most of the sibling comments are insinuating that I am. Weird.
- killerstorm 3mo ago
  I'm sure there are people in Russia, China, ... who don't feel like they're living in an authoritarian country.
  - deleted 3mo ago
    [deleted]
  - tene80i 3mo ago
    If you think Britain and Russia or China are equivalent in terms of government overreach, you need to find new sources of information.
    - nonethewiser 3mo ago
      > If you think Britain and Russia or China are equivalent in terms of government overreach, you need to find new sources of information. Uh... you are making his point. People from way more authoritarian countries don't necessarily feel like they are living in an authoritarian country. Therefore whether or not it "feels" like you are living in one isn't a reliable measure.
      - tene80i 3mo ago
        Trivially true I suppose, but it doesn’t make my point irrelevant - do you think Britain is equivalent to China and Russia? If everyone does but us then yes my goodness they’ve done a good job controlling us, but that seems far fetched.
  - ebbi 3mo ago
    It's true (from a perception perspective): China soars in democratic perception ranking as US, Israel plummet: Poll https://thecradle.co/articles/china-soars-in-democratic-perception-ranking-as-us-israel-plummet-poll https://thecradle.co/articles/china-soars-in-democratic-perc...
nonethewiser 3mo ago
I have absolutely no clue what the US nor Poland's rank has to do with anything.
- b3kart 3mo ago
  It shows the irony of trolling the UK's "authoritarianism" in a thread on a release of a model by a US company, given the US is arguably _more_ authoritarian. (Poland is more of a fun tidbit, as they are indeed tied in the Economist's index.)
odiroot 3mo ago
Really shocked Poland is that low, especially just next to USA.
- WhrRTheBaboons 3mo ago
  Why would you be? The fully corrupt, fear-mongering party that idolized Orban's Hungary and tried to copy his tactics, including taking over the courts (resulting in EU sanctions) and turning the state media into a propaganda machine, only recently lost the elections. And not a full term later, the polls favour them again, combined with a meteoric rise of even worse anti-EU fascists who they'll happily join forces with to take over in 2027. I get you might not hear this stuff if you're not in EU or Poland itself, but seriously, just check the latest polling and history of PiS rule. It would take over a decade to event attempt to undo the damage that has been done to the rule of law in Poland, and the currently ruling "anti-PiS" coalition only had a short while (in which they failed to do anything) before getting neutered by the populace electing their own Trump-like buffoon that proceeds to veto everything the ruling coalition tries to pass. For added damage, the 3rd and 4th leading candidates (with combined 20% support) were the aforementioned fascists. Here's one [0]. Consider the wiki article a fraction of the cesspool he regularly produces. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grzegorz_Braun https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grzegorz_Braun
  - neonstatic 3mo ago
    Placing Poland so far below the UK is a joke understandable to anyone who has spent at least a few weeks in both countries.

by b3kart 3mo ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Economist_Democracy_Index https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Economist_Democracy_Index Probably tongue-in-cheek, but UK 18th, US joint 34th with Poland

solenoid0937 3mo ago

[flagged]

JustSkyfall 3mo ago
> In the UK you get thrown in prison for making a slightly unfriendly tweet. Do you? The closest thing I can think about is how someone was jailed for encouraging arson attacks on asylum hotels. I'd be extremely surprised if the US had zero cases of somebody receiving a police visit after threatening to kill the President or bomb a school or something... (FWIW I do think the UK needs stronger free speech protections, but saying that you'll be immediately jailed for writing unfriendly tweets is a huge stretch)
- BoorishBears 3mo ago
  https://lordslibrary.parliament.uk/select-communications-offences-and-concerns-over-free-speech/ https://lordslibrary.parliament.uk/select-communications-off... Are they really making 12,000 arrests a year over tweets and posts?
- subscribed 3mo ago
  Yes. And also you are threatened with prison for holding in front of a court a placard with [pretty much] a quote from the plaque displayed on the most important criminal court. You're threatened with arrest for holding empty placard. You're jailed for years for holding a zoom meeting planning a peaceful climate-emergency related demonstration. At the same time judge threatens the defendants with contempt of court sanctions if they dare to explain to juries why they planned to protest. You're jailed for opposing a genocide. You're jailed and called a terrorist for painting planes helping to bomb civilians - the exact same thing the sitting PM was defending a person in court some years ago (as a human rights lawyer, the irony). You're arrested for wearing a T-shirt "I support plasticine action" (not a typo, "Plasticine"). We could go for hours.
10xDev 3mo ago
>the quality of discussion on HN has gone to shit, i miss when model released used to have actual informed takes from people that used them or substantive discussion about the system card Your comment earlier. Edit: also, not much change in the last 10 years in prison population. https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn04334/ https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn04...
- solenoid0937 3mo ago
  https://lordslibrary.parliament.uk/select-communications-offences-and-concerns-over-free-speech/ https://lordslibrary.parliament.uk/select-communications-off... 12k people a year thrown in prison for spicy tweets
  - 10xDev 3mo ago
    So roughly 0.017% of the population. "Spicy tweets" including: sending false communications sending threatening communications sending or showing flashing images electronically to people with epilepsy intending to cause them harm (‘epilepsy trolling’) encouraging or assisting serious self-harm sending a photograph or film of a person’s genitals (‘cyberflashing’) sharing or threatening to share intimate photographs or film
    - solenoid0937 3mo ago
      Or a lot more commonly - critique of immigration policy
      - matthewmacleod 3mo ago
        Why did you choose to lie about this today? I'm genuinely interesting – this is trivially obviously not true, so what motivated this?
      - 10xDev 3mo ago
        You are obviously invested in this narrative driven by Musk but you need to back it up properly.
matthewmacleod 3mo ago
In the UK you get thrown in prison for making a slightly unfriendly tweet. Freedom of speech simply does not exist. "These days if you say you're English you'll be arrested and you'll be thrown in jail." It's just not true. Where are you getting this nonsense from?

m0guz 3mo ago

> The Democracy Index published by the British media company We decided that we aren't one of those authoritarian countries.

b3kart 3mo ago
Ah, yes, the Economist, a famously government-controlled media outlet.

Petersipoi 3mo ago

> published by the British media company the Economist Group Haha, it's literally the first sentence of the Wikipedia page. That's fucking funny. Try again.

tene80i 3mo ago
Why is it funny? You think British media can’t be critical of the British government? They are famously merciless. Also, the economist is majority foreign owned, so try doing more than 1 second of research, or be more civil, or ideally both.
- ebbi 3mo ago
  To be fair, BBC has hardly been that critical in the British governments' complicity in the genocide in Gaza. And their headlines covering Israeli atrocities (not even their own governments), is super passive.
  - tene80i 3mo ago
    But the parent point was that no British media could be critical of government policy. Picking an example that isn’t, on one area, doesn’t prove their point. [Edit] Granted though, the bbc isn’t merciless - that’s more the newspapers
- dwb 3mo ago
  The Economist is very much part of the establishment, whoever they are owned by. It is not surprising that they would want to play down any idea that the UK is less “democratic”. Furthermore, The Economist is one of the main mouthpieces of British capitalism, and so their definition of “democracy” is going to be very much of the liberal, capital-friendly kind, which is not completely incompatible with some authoritarian tendencies.
  - tene80i 3mo ago
    The ranking isn’t published by the newspaper - it’s by the research and insights B2B company of the overall group. Regardless of what assumptions you have about the newspaper (elite, yes, but I’m unclear on why you think fierce liberalism is likely to mean they don’t really value democracy), the B2B unit sells data - they’re as likely to skew this ranking as they are at which countries are better at rail infrastructure. Perhaps their definition of democracy is indeed flawed though - no need to speculate, go read their methodology.

sd9 3mo ago

Are the sibling comments astroturfed? This seems like such a bizarre thing to be talking about in relation to an Anthropic model release. As someone from the UK, I don't feel like I'm living in an authoritarian country. And yet most of the sibling comments are insinuating that I am. Weird.

killerstorm 3mo ago
I'm sure there are people in Russia, China, ... who don't feel like they're living in an authoritarian country.
- deleted 3mo ago
  [deleted]
- tene80i 3mo ago
  If you think Britain and Russia or China are equivalent in terms of government overreach, you need to find new sources of information.
  - nonethewiser 3mo ago
    > If you think Britain and Russia or China are equivalent in terms of government overreach, you need to find new sources of information. Uh... you are making his point. People from way more authoritarian countries don't necessarily feel like they are living in an authoritarian country. Therefore whether or not it "feels" like you are living in one isn't a reliable measure.
    - tene80i 3mo ago
      Trivially true I suppose, but it doesn’t make my point irrelevant - do you think Britain is equivalent to China and Russia? If everyone does but us then yes my goodness they’ve done a good job controlling us, but that seems far fetched.
- ebbi 3mo ago
  It's true (from a perception perspective): China soars in democratic perception ranking as US, Israel plummet: Poll https://thecradle.co/articles/china-soars-in-democratic-perception-ranking-as-us-israel-plummet-poll https://thecradle.co/articles/china-soars-in-democratic-perc...

nonethewiser 3mo ago

I have absolutely no clue what the US nor Poland's rank has to do with anything.

b3kart 3mo ago
It shows the irony of trolling the UK's "authoritarianism" in a thread on a release of a model by a US company, given the US is arguably _more_ authoritarian. (Poland is more of a fun tidbit, as they are indeed tied in the Economist's index.)

odiroot 3mo ago

Really shocked Poland is that low, especially just next to USA.

WhrRTheBaboons 3mo ago
Why would you be? The fully corrupt, fear-mongering party that idolized Orban's Hungary and tried to copy his tactics, including taking over the courts (resulting in EU sanctions) and turning the state media into a propaganda machine, only recently lost the elections. And not a full term later, the polls favour them again, combined with a meteoric rise of even worse anti-EU fascists who they'll happily join forces with to take over in 2027. I get you might not hear this stuff if you're not in EU or Poland itself, but seriously, just check the latest polling and history of PiS rule. It would take over a decade to event attempt to undo the damage that has been done to the rule of law in Poland, and the currently ruling "anti-PiS" coalition only had a short while (in which they failed to do anything) before getting neutered by the populace electing their own Trump-like buffoon that proceeds to veto everything the ruling coalition tries to pass. For added damage, the 3rd and 4th leading candidates (with combined 20% support) were the aforementioned fascists. Here's one [0]. Consider the wiki article a fraction of the cesspool he regularly produces. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grzegorz_Braun https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grzegorz_Braun
- neonstatic 3mo ago
  Placing Poland so far below the UK is a joke understandable to anyone who has spent at least a few weeks in both countries.