6 ms·

The marketing has really, really worked for so many developers that will proudly and unironically proclaim that Anthropic are the 'Good Guys'.

aspenmartin 3mo ago
Curious what your idea would be here for a truly good actor in this space; no AI development?
- yifanl 3mo ago
  If I speak up, I'm in big trouble.
- logicchains 3mo ago
  https://www.goody2.ai/ https://www.goody2.ai/
- shimman 3mo ago
  Probably MistralAI or any of the Chinese companies that aren't throwing billions down the drain while American society lacks healthcare, childcare, and good wages.
  - aspenmartin 3mo ago
    You want Anthropic to fund your healthcare or something? Also, have you seen the impact of these models on healthcare? Also most of our GDP growth this year is from AI buildouts, would you rather that be negative? And not even considering: Chinese AI companies are the good guys???
    - hackmack10 3mo ago
      Yes, yes I would prefer that. Better than a total societal collapse. Anthropic are not the good guys either. So here’s to hoping the Chinese pop the bubble.
      - aspenmartin 3mo ago
        Nobody anywhere is a good guy but I don’t think you’ve managed to pick the lesser of the evils here
  - boc 3mo ago
    American society has higher wages than almost any other developed nation [1], so it's objectively incorrect to say the US doesn't have good wages. It chooses to make you pay for private childcare and healthcare, both of which are high-quality but stupid expensive. It's a tradeoff like anything else a nation/society creates and prioritizes. No idea how that connects to the idea that Mistral or DeepSeek are somehow the "good guys" though? [1]https://www.oecd.org/en/data/indicators/average-annual-wages.html https://www.oecd.org/en/data/indicators/average-annual-wages...
    - shimman 3mo ago
      I like how you use average and not median, also while completely ignoring how bad income inequality is (worse than the gilded age ffs) or that the American elites stole $50 trillion from the bottom 90% over the last few decades: https://time.com/5888024/50-trillion-income-inequality-america/ https://time.com/5888024/50-trillion-income-inequality-ameri... I'm glad you mention the "trade off" where it's elites trading off the lives of American workers for money. Makes it quite apparent where you sit on the table of equality.
  - cortesoft 3mo ago
    None of the money being spent by Anthropic was going to go towards healthcare or childcare.
- BoppreH 3mo ago
  Not the direct person you asked, but my answer would be alignment, interpretability, and policymaking. Perhaps improving existing usage? Helping grandma create reminders doesn't require advancing the AI state-of-the-art.
  - uselessTA 3mo ago
    Unilateral disarmament doesn't work though. If Anthropic is worried about this, just letting OpenAI win does seem genuinely worse.
  - aspenmartin 3mo ago
    They are state of the art at all 3! As are other labs. Of all the labs they seem to take alignment and interpretability the most seriously to the point where they are hampering their own revenue in service of trying to not cause problems while also being in an incredibly competitive space. All AI companies are trying to do all of what you’re saying. The issue is you can’t do that for long without a frontier system. Or you become a completely different, far less profitable company.
    - BoppreH 3mo ago
      Implied in my answer was "and not creating ever stronger AIs", which unfortunately the big 3 labs are failing at. And they might be hampering their own revenue by doing the rest, but they also know that rocking the boat too hard is even more dangerous for their revenue. I wouldn't call it selfless.
      - aspenmartin 3mo ago
        No it’s not selfless, but I can’t imagine a more shareholder minded CEO would not have done a slow rollout of mythos. The point is: creating ever stronger AI systems is what these companies do, it is integral to what they even are. If you think that’s bad, even if all frontier labs agreed with you, you’re in a horrible game theoretic position. Any player can gain an enormous advantage by breaking the agreement. Not to mention Xi would be absolutely thrilled; now China can take over the AI race, become the load bearing infrastructure of humanity. We live in a complex world where simple childlike ideas like “well why don’t we just stop developing AI” actually are more damaging than keeping things going.
- winstonp 3mo ago
  OpenAI's training is better suited to developing models that don't have these tendencies
ben_w 3mo ago
It's a five horse race between Alphabet, Meta, xAI, OpenAI, and Anthropic. Alphabet dropped "don't be evil"; Meta's CEO called their own users "dumb fucks" for trusting him and also clearly thinks "super-intelligence" is just a buzzword given how he tries to sell it; xAI's model called itself "Mecha Hitler"; and OpenAI's CEO was temporarily fired by the board for a lack of candor. It's very easy to be "the good guys" with this competition.
- 00deadbeef 3mo ago
  But it doesn't make you the good guy, it makes you the best of a bad bunch. The least bad. Dario gets a boner every time he talks about taking your job.
  - ben_w 3mo ago
    Does a good job of hiding it. The guy looks miserable in half the photos I see.
maxk42 3mo ago
Even if they are... road to hell and all that

aspenmartin 3mo ago

Curious what your idea would be here for a truly good actor in this space; no AI development?

yifanl 3mo ago
If I speak up, I'm in big trouble.
logicchains 3mo ago
https://www.goody2.ai/ https://www.goody2.ai/
shimman 3mo ago
Probably MistralAI or any of the Chinese companies that aren't throwing billions down the drain while American society lacks healthcare, childcare, and good wages.
- aspenmartin 3mo ago
  You want Anthropic to fund your healthcare or something? Also, have you seen the impact of these models on healthcare? Also most of our GDP growth this year is from AI buildouts, would you rather that be negative? And not even considering: Chinese AI companies are the good guys???
  - hackmack10 3mo ago
    Yes, yes I would prefer that. Better than a total societal collapse. Anthropic are not the good guys either. So here’s to hoping the Chinese pop the bubble.
    - aspenmartin 3mo ago
      Nobody anywhere is a good guy but I don’t think you’ve managed to pick the lesser of the evils here
- boc 3mo ago
  American society has higher wages than almost any other developed nation [1], so it's objectively incorrect to say the US doesn't have good wages. It chooses to make you pay for private childcare and healthcare, both of which are high-quality but stupid expensive. It's a tradeoff like anything else a nation/society creates and prioritizes. No idea how that connects to the idea that Mistral or DeepSeek are somehow the "good guys" though? [1]https://www.oecd.org/en/data/indicators/average-annual-wages.html https://www.oecd.org/en/data/indicators/average-annual-wages...
  - shimman 3mo ago
    I like how you use average and not median, also while completely ignoring how bad income inequality is (worse than the gilded age ffs) or that the American elites stole $50 trillion from the bottom 90% over the last few decades: https://time.com/5888024/50-trillion-income-inequality-america/ https://time.com/5888024/50-trillion-income-inequality-ameri... I'm glad you mention the "trade off" where it's elites trading off the lives of American workers for money. Makes it quite apparent where you sit on the table of equality.
- cortesoft 3mo ago
  None of the money being spent by Anthropic was going to go towards healthcare or childcare.
BoppreH 3mo ago
Not the direct person you asked, but my answer would be alignment, interpretability, and policymaking. Perhaps improving existing usage? Helping grandma create reminders doesn't require advancing the AI state-of-the-art.
- uselessTA 3mo ago
  Unilateral disarmament doesn't work though. If Anthropic is worried about this, just letting OpenAI win does seem genuinely worse.
- aspenmartin 3mo ago
  They are state of the art at all 3! As are other labs. Of all the labs they seem to take alignment and interpretability the most seriously to the point where they are hampering their own revenue in service of trying to not cause problems while also being in an incredibly competitive space. All AI companies are trying to do all of what you’re saying. The issue is you can’t do that for long without a frontier system. Or you become a completely different, far less profitable company.
  - BoppreH 3mo ago
    Implied in my answer was "and not creating ever stronger AIs", which unfortunately the big 3 labs are failing at. And they might be hampering their own revenue by doing the rest, but they also know that rocking the boat too hard is even more dangerous for their revenue. I wouldn't call it selfless.
    - aspenmartin 3mo ago
      No it’s not selfless, but I can’t imagine a more shareholder minded CEO would not have done a slow rollout of mythos. The point is: creating ever stronger AI systems is what these companies do, it is integral to what they even are. If you think that’s bad, even if all frontier labs agreed with you, you’re in a horrible game theoretic position. Any player can gain an enormous advantage by breaking the agreement. Not to mention Xi would be absolutely thrilled; now China can take over the AI race, become the load bearing infrastructure of humanity. We live in a complex world where simple childlike ideas like “well why don’t we just stop developing AI” actually are more damaging than keeping things going.
winstonp 3mo ago
OpenAI's training is better suited to developing models that don't have these tendencies

ben_w 3mo ago

It's a five horse race between Alphabet, Meta, xAI, OpenAI, and Anthropic. Alphabet dropped "don't be evil"; Meta's CEO called their own users "dumb fucks" for trusting him and also clearly thinks "super-intelligence" is just a buzzword given how he tries to sell it; xAI's model called itself "Mecha Hitler"; and OpenAI's CEO was temporarily fired by the board for a lack of candor. It's very easy to be "the good guys" with this competition.

00deadbeef 3mo ago
But it doesn't make you the good guy, it makes you the best of a bad bunch. The least bad. Dario gets a boner every time he talks about taking your job.
- ben_w 3mo ago
  Does a good job of hiding it. The guy looks miserable in half the photos I see.

maxk42 3mo ago

Even if they are... road to hell and all that