7 ms·

I’m sorry if i’m missing something… what does this have to do with his story other than addiction and felony? (fwiw i agree regardless, don’t get a motorcycle,

by rileytg 3mo ago

I’m sorry if i’m missing something… what does this have to do with his story other than addiction and felony? (fwiw i agree regardless, don’t get a motorcycle, lost too many friends to accidents or the following addiction)

ProllyInfamous 3mo ago
The wrecklessness which brings some people into prison, is what brings them & others lusting towards motorcycle culture, often shortly upon release. Something something something anti-social something. I'm just offering real-world advice after witnessing all the broken bones and jerked roadrash upon this tattoo'd convict's broken body. Shouldn't be alive.
- coldtea 3mo ago
  Billions of people have a motorcycle globally... Some anecdote from a chronically motorcycle adverse culture (US) doesn't mean a whole mean of transport is invalid...
  - estearum 3mo ago
    Most people riding motorcycles globally are not doing so on busy freeways at 60mph+ multiple times per day, surrounded by 2.5 ton vehicles with poor visibility traveling 60mph+ Putzing around an urban center on a cafe bike is not what it means to "ride a motorcycle" in the US.
    - whartung 3mo ago
      I'd much rather be on a freeway at 60+ MPH surrounded by 2.5 ton vehicles with poor visibility than riding an urban street. New riders are rightly intimidated by the freeways (they're fast, they're big), but they're far, far safer than the street with all of the starting, stopping, hard corners, folks turning onto the street, and, of course, the king of bike slayers, the "I didn't see them" left turn. Not to mention all the junk on the streets: the oil, anti-freeze, gravel, wet painted turn arrows. When freeways become unsafe is when the loose nut behind the handlebars decides to wick it up and just "go around all of these big slow things". But that's not the freeways fault. First year/10,000 miles is the hardest. But the foundational rules apply: Wear the gear, slow down, don't ride impaired (drunk, high, tired...). Lightning strikes, it sucks. But, anecdotally, my worst motor vehicle injury was while a passenger in a modern car when my friend drove into a left turning vehicle. "Fender bender", "no biggie". Chronic, notable, back pain ever since. Worst than anything I've ever suffered on a motorcycle.
      - mothballed 3mo ago
        First 10k are the hardest but the tail effect of an experienced rider is what gets you. I had crashes in my first 10k but my worst were after riding for decades when I would just randomly hit a tiny oil slick going 70+mph while using zero brakes, zero turning, and zero extra acceleration. Just get thrown low-side due to randomness of having to watch traffic while not noticing a tiny oil slick with enough random variations in the road that it immediately throws the bike when traction regains.
      - estearum 3mo ago
        You're describing American cities, while GP (to whom I was responding) was clearly describing the huge number of foreign cities (e.g. SE Asia) where motorcycles are the dominant form of urban transit. The relevant factor is that a street where motorcycles, cycles, pedestrians, and small/slow cars are dominant – all of which move at generally slow speeds – is of far, far, far less danger than a street (freeway or not) where the primary form factor is large automobiles traveling quickly. You're describing American cities, while GP (to whom I was responding) was clearly describing the huge number of foreign cities (e.g. SE Asia) where motorcycles are the dominant form of urban transit. The relevant factor is that a street where motorcycles, cycles, pedestrians, and small/slow cars are dominant – all of which move at generally slow speeds – is of far, far, far less danger than a street (freeway or not) where the primary form factor is large automobiles traveling quickly. > First year/10,000 miles is the hardest This is typical Intermediate Syndrome. The median rider involved in a motorcycle accident has nearly 3 years of experience. No, road defects, obstacles, and weather are almost never the cause of motorcycle accidents.
        decimalenough 3mo ago
        I lived in Bangkok and saw 4 motorcycle accidents or their immediate aftermath. Even in perpetually jammed third world megacity traffic, the motorcyclist always loses to the other vehicle, in several of those cases almost certainly fatally.
        KingMob 3mo ago
        I guess this depends on whether you're emphasizing deadliness or likelihood. I live in Thailand, and I can assure you that while scooters dominating city streets increases awareness by car drivers, it doesn't make accidents less likely. Most accidents worldwide happen on low-speed streets, not highways. On highways, the speeds are higher, so the rare accidents that occur are more damaging, but the opportunities for accidents are also much, MUCH lower. (No/few turns, no/few stops, similar speed levels, better visibility, etc.)
  - qmr 3mo ago
    > chronically adverse culture That's the thing. On a bike you can do everything right and still lose. California is one of the safer places to ride given how many bikes are here and I've still had too many near misses as a trained, experienced, and conservative rider. Most people put 1-2k miles a year on their bikes, when I was riding often I put on 2-3k/ month.
    - embedding-shape 3mo ago
      > That's the thing. On a bike you can do everything right and still lose. Same with a car, or anything really. The point of parent stands, globally there are billions of people going through their lives with motorcycles as their main vehicles, yet aren't involved in any life-changing accidents. Some places are more dangerous than others, probably places that doesn't have this already motorcycle-heavy culture, like other countries in the world, has a higher incident rate and more severe accidents, as drivers aren't aware of how motorcycles usually operate.
      - robobro 3mo ago
        I live in Indonesia. We have the highest per-capita rate of bike ownership in the world. I have seen what happens to motorcycle riders when there are accidents and I have seen what happens to car drivers when there are accidents. I won't get into the gory details but I avoid using bikes as much as possible.
        embedding-shape 3mo ago
        And I've seen what happens when pedestrians get hit by a car going way too fast, it sucks, and is horrible, but also besides the point. Not to say one has worse/better accidents, motorcycles accidents obviously has a much higher fatality and serious injuries risk, hard to deny.
        ProllyInfamous 3mo ago
        >but also besides the point. Hard disagree. Both pedestrians and motorcyclists are raw to the elements, entirely. At least when on roadways an automobile provides a chassis/rollcage.
  - newaccountman2 3mo ago
    A fairly large % of those people--I would wager most, personally--would probably rather have cars, but can't afford to.
    - sgt 3mo ago
      I'm a motorcyclists. We usually refer to the smaller bikes as "motorbikes". Two wheels in the west is usually a hobby. In other parts of the world it might be a necessity, they don't do it for the pleasure. A lot of people forget this.
    - klibertp 3mo ago
      Probably depends on the locale. In Europe, riding a moped in a big city is a way to drastically cut your commute compared to driving a car. It's not exactly dangerous when all the other road users are moving at 5m/min, and being able to just skip all the traffic jams is a godsend. By car, my trip to the office was about 45min - it was 15min on a moped, a stop at a shop for some snacks included. And that's with riding speed never exceeding 50km/h. I had two accidents during my 5 years of commuting, and both times I only got minor scratches and had to replace my shoes. Both happened at speeds a determined bicycle rider could achieve, but I suspect I wouldn't be as well protected on a bicycle (both the machine itself and the protective gear tend to be much lighter there than on a moped). If I needed to do that again, I'd buy a model with two wheels at the front, which would have prevented both accidents - though I'm not sure if added stability wouldn't encourage me to ride faster. So it's pretty specific, but if you're somewhere where driving culture is not too cutthroat, the roads can support single-track vehicles, and the traffic rather than actual distance is the limiting factor - owning a bike can be an objectively better option.
      - newaccountman2 3mo ago
        oh interesting, I should have realized it was fairly common in Europe
        coldtea 3mo ago
        In Europe many people have both, and use the motorcycle to go to work/etc because it's faster and more convenient, especially in a larger city with traffic jams.
  - calmbonsai 3mo ago
    The issue is the bodily risk of injury or death compared to nearly any other routine transportation or sporting activity: https://injuryfacts.nsc.org/motor-vehicle/road-users/motorcycles/ https://injuryfacts.nsc.org/motor-vehicle/road-users/motorcy...
  - deleted 3mo ago
    [deleted]
- senectus1 3mo ago
  yeah I think you have PTSD from your friends accident. Not all bike owners and riders have a shady history or risk taking behavior (aside from riding a motrobike).
richardlblair 3mo ago
He's just pointing out that after putting so much work into getting their life turned around it can easy be ruined by indulging in high risk behavior. It's not bad advice, just unlikely to land. Thrill seekers seek thrills.

by rileytg 3mo ago

ProllyInfamous 3mo ago

The wrecklessness which brings some people into prison, is what brings them & others lusting towards motorcycle culture, often shortly upon release. Something something something anti-social something. I'm just offering real-world advice after witnessing all the broken bones and jerked roadrash upon this tattoo'd convict's broken body. Shouldn't be alive.

coldtea 3mo ago
Billions of people have a motorcycle globally... Some anecdote from a chronically motorcycle adverse culture (US) doesn't mean a whole mean of transport is invalid...
- estearum 3mo ago
  Most people riding motorcycles globally are not doing so on busy freeways at 60mph+ multiple times per day, surrounded by 2.5 ton vehicles with poor visibility traveling 60mph+ Putzing around an urban center on a cafe bike is not what it means to "ride a motorcycle" in the US.
  - whartung 3mo ago
    I'd much rather be on a freeway at 60+ MPH surrounded by 2.5 ton vehicles with poor visibility than riding an urban street. New riders are rightly intimidated by the freeways (they're fast, they're big), but they're far, far safer than the street with all of the starting, stopping, hard corners, folks turning onto the street, and, of course, the king of bike slayers, the "I didn't see them" left turn. Not to mention all the junk on the streets: the oil, anti-freeze, gravel, wet painted turn arrows. When freeways become unsafe is when the loose nut behind the handlebars decides to wick it up and just "go around all of these big slow things". But that's not the freeways fault. First year/10,000 miles is the hardest. But the foundational rules apply: Wear the gear, slow down, don't ride impaired (drunk, high, tired...). Lightning strikes, it sucks. But, anecdotally, my worst motor vehicle injury was while a passenger in a modern car when my friend drove into a left turning vehicle. "Fender bender", "no biggie". Chronic, notable, back pain ever since. Worst than anything I've ever suffered on a motorcycle.
    - mothballed 3mo ago
      First 10k are the hardest but the tail effect of an experienced rider is what gets you. I had crashes in my first 10k but my worst were after riding for decades when I would just randomly hit a tiny oil slick going 70+mph while using zero brakes, zero turning, and zero extra acceleration. Just get thrown low-side due to randomness of having to watch traffic while not noticing a tiny oil slick with enough random variations in the road that it immediately throws the bike when traction regains.
    - estearum 3mo ago
      You're describing American cities, while GP (to whom I was responding) was clearly describing the huge number of foreign cities (e.g. SE Asia) where motorcycles are the dominant form of urban transit. The relevant factor is that a street where motorcycles, cycles, pedestrians, and small/slow cars are dominant – all of which move at generally slow speeds – is of far, far, far less danger than a street (freeway or not) where the primary form factor is large automobiles traveling quickly. You're describing American cities, while GP (to whom I was responding) was clearly describing the huge number of foreign cities (e.g. SE Asia) where motorcycles are the dominant form of urban transit. The relevant factor is that a street where motorcycles, cycles, pedestrians, and small/slow cars are dominant – all of which move at generally slow speeds – is of far, far, far less danger than a street (freeway or not) where the primary form factor is large automobiles traveling quickly. > First year/10,000 miles is the hardest This is typical Intermediate Syndrome. The median rider involved in a motorcycle accident has nearly 3 years of experience. No, road defects, obstacles, and weather are almost never the cause of motorcycle accidents.
      - decimalenough 3mo ago
        I lived in Bangkok and saw 4 motorcycle accidents or their immediate aftermath. Even in perpetually jammed third world megacity traffic, the motorcyclist always loses to the other vehicle, in several of those cases almost certainly fatally.
      - KingMob 3mo ago
        I guess this depends on whether you're emphasizing deadliness or likelihood. I live in Thailand, and I can assure you that while scooters dominating city streets increases awareness by car drivers, it doesn't make accidents less likely. Most accidents worldwide happen on low-speed streets, not highways. On highways, the speeds are higher, so the rare accidents that occur are more damaging, but the opportunities for accidents are also much, MUCH lower. (No/few turns, no/few stops, similar speed levels, better visibility, etc.)
- qmr 3mo ago
  > chronically adverse culture That's the thing. On a bike you can do everything right and still lose. California is one of the safer places to ride given how many bikes are here and I've still had too many near misses as a trained, experienced, and conservative rider. Most people put 1-2k miles a year on their bikes, when I was riding often I put on 2-3k/ month.
  - embedding-shape 3mo ago
    > That's the thing. On a bike you can do everything right and still lose. Same with a car, or anything really. The point of parent stands, globally there are billions of people going through their lives with motorcycles as their main vehicles, yet aren't involved in any life-changing accidents. Some places are more dangerous than others, probably places that doesn't have this already motorcycle-heavy culture, like other countries in the world, has a higher incident rate and more severe accidents, as drivers aren't aware of how motorcycles usually operate.
    - robobro 3mo ago
      I live in Indonesia. We have the highest per-capita rate of bike ownership in the world. I have seen what happens to motorcycle riders when there are accidents and I have seen what happens to car drivers when there are accidents. I won't get into the gory details but I avoid using bikes as much as possible.
      - embedding-shape 3mo ago
        And I've seen what happens when pedestrians get hit by a car going way too fast, it sucks, and is horrible, but also besides the point. Not to say one has worse/better accidents, motorcycles accidents obviously has a much higher fatality and serious injuries risk, hard to deny.
        ProllyInfamous 3mo ago
        >but also besides the point. Hard disagree. Both pedestrians and motorcyclists are raw to the elements, entirely. At least when on roadways an automobile provides a chassis/rollcage.
- newaccountman2 3mo ago
  A fairly large % of those people--I would wager most, personally--would probably rather have cars, but can't afford to.
  - sgt 3mo ago
    I'm a motorcyclists. We usually refer to the smaller bikes as "motorbikes". Two wheels in the west is usually a hobby. In other parts of the world it might be a necessity, they don't do it for the pleasure. A lot of people forget this.
  - klibertp 3mo ago
    Probably depends on the locale. In Europe, riding a moped in a big city is a way to drastically cut your commute compared to driving a car. It's not exactly dangerous when all the other road users are moving at 5m/min, and being able to just skip all the traffic jams is a godsend. By car, my trip to the office was about 45min - it was 15min on a moped, a stop at a shop for some snacks included. And that's with riding speed never exceeding 50km/h. I had two accidents during my 5 years of commuting, and both times I only got minor scratches and had to replace my shoes. Both happened at speeds a determined bicycle rider could achieve, but I suspect I wouldn't be as well protected on a bicycle (both the machine itself and the protective gear tend to be much lighter there than on a moped). If I needed to do that again, I'd buy a model with two wheels at the front, which would have prevented both accidents - though I'm not sure if added stability wouldn't encourage me to ride faster. So it's pretty specific, but if you're somewhere where driving culture is not too cutthroat, the roads can support single-track vehicles, and the traffic rather than actual distance is the limiting factor - owning a bike can be an objectively better option.
    - newaccountman2 3mo ago
      oh interesting, I should have realized it was fairly common in Europe
      - coldtea 3mo ago
        In Europe many people have both, and use the motorcycle to go to work/etc because it's faster and more convenient, especially in a larger city with traffic jams.
- calmbonsai 3mo ago
  The issue is the bodily risk of injury or death compared to nearly any other routine transportation or sporting activity: https://injuryfacts.nsc.org/motor-vehicle/road-users/motorcycles/ https://injuryfacts.nsc.org/motor-vehicle/road-users/motorcy...
- deleted 3mo ago
  [deleted]
senectus1 3mo ago
yeah I think you have PTSD from your friends accident. Not all bike owners and riders have a shady history or risk taking behavior (aside from riding a motrobike).

richardlblair 3mo ago

He's just pointing out that after putting so much work into getting their life turned around it can easy be ruined by indulging in high risk behavior. It's not bad advice, just unlikely to land. Thrill seekers seek thrills.