11 ms·

Can we stop it with this two tier justice system nonsense?

by mmikeff 3mo ago

kaliqt 3mo ago
[flagged]
- mmikeff 3mo ago
  It's not a fact at all, it's a lie spread by people who want to stoke anger for their own benefit.
  - skippyboxedhero 3mo ago
    https://x.com/Keir_Starmer/status/1270374388488167428?lang=en https://x.com/Keir_Starmer/status/1270374388488167428?lang=e...
    - trumpdong 3mo ago
      Are we just posting irrelevant links? https://thedailywtf.com/ https://thedailywtf.com/
    - croes 3mo ago
      And? Being against anti-black racism doesn’t mean pro-white racism. Have you looked up what all those claiming racism against white people said when the victim of a mistake of an police officer was non-white?
      - skippyboxedhero 3mo ago
        You haven't even begun to understand people who disagree with you. If you believe that what happened to George Floyd was bad, you would also believe that what happened to Nowak was bad. Saying that being appalled by police brutality towards a white person is "racism" misunderstands what people are saying complextely. You are arguing with phantoms in your head. The problem that people have is that whilst America was ripping itself apart with riots, British politicians were enthusiastically supporting this. Starmer made a statement saying he stood with the rioters. The same thing happened in the UK, there was a brief riot, and Starmer has taken the complete opposite position...and today, actually complained about people in other countries "stoking up division" (this is something that is getting said every few days). The UK has policing policies and laws which favour some groups in society, this event was the outcome of that. When this happened in the US, the same politicians were outraged, appalled, disgusted. When this happened in the UK, no issues with policing at all. The problem that people have is that this is obviously contradictatory...again, if you start from the basis that people should be treated equally (which many people in the UK do not).
        akimbostrawman 3mo ago
        >If you believe that what happened to George Floyd was bad, you would also believe that what happened to Nowak was bad except Nowak has never done a crime such as robbing a pregnant women with a knife or overdosed on drugs leading to his death.
        croes 3mo ago
        Except George Floyd was the last case in a long list of police brutality against black people. How many cases like Nowak‘s where before his? Seems like right wingers have a really short temper if they aren’t ok with the victims skin color. Reminds me of anti vaxxers who cry murder if they can remotely link a death to a vaccine side effect but happily ignore thousands of death from COVID.
        akimbostrawman 3mo ago
        >Except George Floyd was the last case in a long list of police brutality against black people. You mean the long list which gets very short once you actually watch the bodycam footage instead of msm headlines? >How many cases like Nowak‘s where before his? They literally have tried there best to hide this case. Have you ever considered that the reason you have not heard of other cases is the opposite reason you claim there is a (disproportionately) long list of police brutality against black? Not to mention that statistically speaking, if a group of people commit more crimes, they are also more likely to be involved with police increasing the chance of any brutality. >Seems like right wingers have a really short temper if they aren’t ok with the victims skin color. I don't see how claimed political affiliation is relevant here outside of attempting ad hominem. >Reminds me of anti vaxxers Reminds me of whataboutism and deflection. You forgot to call me a nazi, im sure that will change reality and do the heavy lifting in an argument.
        croes 3mo ago
        I understand them pretty well. It’s the same kind if people who ignored the deaths by COVID but claimed every death linked to the vaccines was murder or the consequence of mass experimentation on humans. Just because this time an police error lead to the death of a white person doesn’t make it a case of racism against whites. George Floyd was also only the straw that broke the camels back. There is more than enough evidence of racism in the Us justice system.
- unfitted2545 3mo ago
  How many chief constables aren't white? Cognitive dissonance isn't a fact
  - skippyboxedhero 3mo ago
    You will need to explain this in more detail so people without racial prejudice can understand why someone's race impacts their ability to do a certain job. If they were not white, you would still have to claim there is discrimination? Or do you believe that non whites are inherently better at policing? Unclear. Also, in the UK there has been central directives to discriminate in favour of ethnic minorities for nearly three decades, discrimination is part of policing policy, there is an extensive body of training given to police to effectuate that (and that extends beyond policing into the court system).
    - lwhi 3mo ago
      It's really not that complicated. If we have fewer non-white police officers, our ability to keep the whole of our (gratefully diverse) population safe is at a disadvantage. We need a police force that accurately represents the full range of diversity in our country. Occasionally members of the police force will f*k up badly. This is a fact. In the case of Henry Nowak, a police officer made an incredibly bad call and this added to Novak's tragic passing. The misdemeanor associated with one person does not mean that our diverse society should be made less diverse. The very fact that people like you are calling for this type of change is ignorant, opportunistic and frankly wrong. I will not stand for it.
      - skippyboxedhero 3mo ago
        No-one cares about your opinion (or mine). You have misunderstood my point entirely. Being non-white does not mean they are able to do their job better. That is a racist belief. The police in this case were white. But they were acting on policies which require them to treat non-white members of the public differently. It is nothing to do with diversity. Unless you are a racist, diversity is not an end in itself. No-one is making self-important statements about changing society. They just want the police to do their job correctly. If someone is stabbed, they shouldn't arrest them because their policy dictates that non-whites are rarely suspects in crimes. The peak of luxury beliefs is to believe that people performing vital jobs that may involve life or death should perform that job in a way to achieve abstract social goals in order to make individuals feel better about "society".
userbinator 3mo ago
Two words: Henry Nowak.
- lwhi 3mo ago
  [flagged]
  - logicchains 3mo ago
    The bodycam literally shows a police officer responding to a man who's been stabbed with "I don't think you have mate", just because his killer said the man was racist.
    - lwhi 3mo ago
      I'll make this simple for you. The behaviour of one officer does not mean that we should no longer live in a diverse society. This is one incident. The officer is question made a terrible call. The fact that people like you are using this as ammunition to further frankly racist aims, is an egregious afront to everyone living in the UK.
      - b65e8bee43c2ed0 3mo ago
        [flagged]
        lwhi 3mo ago
        You are simply racist.
        b65e8bee43c2ed0 3mo ago
        [flagged]
        tomhow 3mo ago
243341286 3mo ago
[dead]
GlacierFox 3mo ago
[flagged]
fer 3mo ago
I wouldn't call it two-tier justice, because generally the courts do the right thing, but there's a shamefully obvious two-tier policing. From the Jay Report [0] showing crimes swept under the rug according to ethnic/socioeconomic background of perp and victim, to arresting people for opposing genocide (sorry: terrorism!) [1] to the recent case of Henry Nowak [2], it's really hard not to see a two-tier policing in the UK. And this very submission; caring about privacy is seen grounds for being reported and potentially investigated, by a private company! Which suggests it's something already internalized, too, for people who resist big corp surveillance. Back in the 90s and before, the two-tier heavily punished the minorities, and in an overshooting overcorrection, now it's the other way around. Nowak getting handcuffed by cops going "I don't think you have [been stabbed] mate!" says it all. Unless it's regarding opposing/supporting Israel, then the two-tier flips and people with basic human decency and actual antisemites are pigeonholed together, nevermind their background. [0] https://www.rotherham.gov.uk/downloads/file/279/independent-inquiry-into-child-sexual-exploitation-in-rotherham https://www.rotherham.gov.uk/downloads/file/279/independent-... [1] https://newint.org/action/2025/i-oppose-genocide-ok https://newint.org/action/2025/i-oppose-genocide-ok [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Henry_Nowak https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Henry_Nowak
- foldr 3mo ago
  The Palestine Action ban was overturned by the courts. And putting this together with the Nowak case leads to an almost contradictory position. Whatever the issues with police handling of pro-Palestinian protestors, they're not instances of what the far right would call two-tier policing (i.e. the bogus claim that the police treat white people more harshly than other ethnic groups). For example, here is a poster who' all over this thread complaining about two-tier policing, but who supports the ban on PA: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48155504 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48155504 The more nuanced reality is that the police are extremely imperfect and treat all sorts of different groups of people unfairly in all sorts of different ways. That's indeed a problem, but it's not a political conspiracy.
  - trumpdong 3mo ago
    The police are ignoring the courts and still arresting people for protesting PA.
foldr 3mo ago
There's a thought experiment in the philosophy of mind where your brain is gradually replaced, neuron by neuron, with artificial units that replicate the exact input and output mappings of the original neurons. The question, of course, is whether this change is accompanied by any change in your subjective conscious experience. I notice that a variant of this experiment is now playing out on HN in real time, with various commenters having their neuronal mappings gradually reshaped to match activation layers trained on Elon Musk's twitter feed. A few years ago it was possible to have conversations about the UK on HN. Now all you can really do is get into pointless arguments with biological instantiations of Grok. Unfortunately, there are vastly more people outside the UK consuming this nonsense than there are British people who can flag it or correct it. So in contrast to conversations about the US, it is very hard for perspectives grounded in reality to break through. If you look into it, the vast majority of the users stirring things up in this thread aren't in Britain, and most likely have little to no first-hand knowledge of what the country is like.
- trumpdong 3mo ago
  Very true, but not really related to the thought experiment you mentioned since that one doesn't change the behavior of each neuron.
snvzz 3mo ago
This[0] is what the UK has come to be. 0. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csBnAX6yS-U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csBnAX6yS-U

Can we stop it with this two tier justice system nonsense?

by mmikeff 3mo ago

Can we stop it with this two tier justice system nonsense?

kaliqt 3mo ago

[flagged]

mmikeff 3mo ago
It's not a fact at all, it's a lie spread by people who want to stoke anger for their own benefit.
- skippyboxedhero 3mo ago
  https://x.com/Keir_Starmer/status/1270374388488167428?lang=en https://x.com/Keir_Starmer/status/1270374388488167428?lang=e...
  - trumpdong 3mo ago
    Are we just posting irrelevant links? https://thedailywtf.com/ https://thedailywtf.com/
  - croes 3mo ago
    And? Being against anti-black racism doesn’t mean pro-white racism. Have you looked up what all those claiming racism against white people said when the victim of a mistake of an police officer was non-white?
    - skippyboxedhero 3mo ago
      You haven't even begun to understand people who disagree with you. If you believe that what happened to George Floyd was bad, you would also believe that what happened to Nowak was bad. Saying that being appalled by police brutality towards a white person is "racism" misunderstands what people are saying complextely. You are arguing with phantoms in your head. The problem that people have is that whilst America was ripping itself apart with riots, British politicians were enthusiastically supporting this. Starmer made a statement saying he stood with the rioters. The same thing happened in the UK, there was a brief riot, and Starmer has taken the complete opposite position...and today, actually complained about people in other countries "stoking up division" (this is something that is getting said every few days). The UK has policing policies and laws which favour some groups in society, this event was the outcome of that. When this happened in the US, the same politicians were outraged, appalled, disgusted. When this happened in the UK, no issues with policing at all. The problem that people have is that this is obviously contradictatory...again, if you start from the basis that people should be treated equally (which many people in the UK do not).
      - akimbostrawman 3mo ago
        >If you believe that what happened to George Floyd was bad, you would also believe that what happened to Nowak was bad except Nowak has never done a crime such as robbing a pregnant women with a knife or overdosed on drugs leading to his death.
        croes 3mo ago
        Except George Floyd was the last case in a long list of police brutality against black people. How many cases like Nowak‘s where before his? Seems like right wingers have a really short temper if they aren’t ok with the victims skin color. Reminds me of anti vaxxers who cry murder if they can remotely link a death to a vaccine side effect but happily ignore thousands of death from COVID.
        akimbostrawman 3mo ago
        >Except George Floyd was the last case in a long list of police brutality against black people. You mean the long list which gets very short once you actually watch the bodycam footage instead of msm headlines? >How many cases like Nowak‘s where before his? They literally have tried there best to hide this case. Have you ever considered that the reason you have not heard of other cases is the opposite reason you claim there is a (disproportionately) long list of police brutality against black? Not to mention that statistically speaking, if a group of people commit more crimes, they are also more likely to be involved with police increasing the chance of any brutality. >Seems like right wingers have a really short temper if they aren’t ok with the victims skin color. I don't see how claimed political affiliation is relevant here outside of attempting ad hominem. >Reminds me of anti vaxxers Reminds me of whataboutism and deflection. You forgot to call me a nazi, im sure that will change reality and do the heavy lifting in an argument.
      - croes 3mo ago
        I understand them pretty well. It’s the same kind if people who ignored the deaths by COVID but claimed every death linked to the vaccines was murder or the consequence of mass experimentation on humans. Just because this time an police error lead to the death of a white person doesn’t make it a case of racism against whites. George Floyd was also only the straw that broke the camels back. There is more than enough evidence of racism in the Us justice system.
unfitted2545 3mo ago
How many chief constables aren't white? Cognitive dissonance isn't a fact
- skippyboxedhero 3mo ago
  You will need to explain this in more detail so people without racial prejudice can understand why someone's race impacts their ability to do a certain job. If they were not white, you would still have to claim there is discrimination? Or do you believe that non whites are inherently better at policing? Unclear. Also, in the UK there has been central directives to discriminate in favour of ethnic minorities for nearly three decades, discrimination is part of policing policy, there is an extensive body of training given to police to effectuate that (and that extends beyond policing into the court system).
  - lwhi 3mo ago
    It's really not that complicated. If we have fewer non-white police officers, our ability to keep the whole of our (gratefully diverse) population safe is at a disadvantage. We need a police force that accurately represents the full range of diversity in our country. Occasionally members of the police force will f*k up badly. This is a fact. In the case of Henry Nowak, a police officer made an incredibly bad call and this added to Novak's tragic passing. The misdemeanor associated with one person does not mean that our diverse society should be made less diverse. The very fact that people like you are calling for this type of change is ignorant, opportunistic and frankly wrong. I will not stand for it.
    - skippyboxedhero 3mo ago
      No-one cares about your opinion (or mine). You have misunderstood my point entirely. Being non-white does not mean they are able to do their job better. That is a racist belief. The police in this case were white. But they were acting on policies which require them to treat non-white members of the public differently. It is nothing to do with diversity. Unless you are a racist, diversity is not an end in itself. No-one is making self-important statements about changing society. They just want the police to do their job correctly. If someone is stabbed, they shouldn't arrest them because their policy dictates that non-whites are rarely suspects in crimes. The peak of luxury beliefs is to believe that people performing vital jobs that may involve life or death should perform that job in a way to achieve abstract social goals in order to make individuals feel better about "society".

userbinator 3mo ago

Two words: Henry Nowak.

lwhi 3mo ago
[flagged]
- logicchains 3mo ago
  The bodycam literally shows a police officer responding to a man who's been stabbed with "I don't think you have mate", just because his killer said the man was racist.
  - lwhi 3mo ago
    I'll make this simple for you. The behaviour of one officer does not mean that we should no longer live in a diverse society. This is one incident. The officer is question made a terrible call. The fact that people like you are using this as ammunition to further frankly racist aims, is an egregious afront to everyone living in the UK.
    - b65e8bee43c2ed0 3mo ago
      [flagged]
      - lwhi 3mo ago
        You are simply racist.
        b65e8bee43c2ed0 3mo ago
        [flagged]
        tomhow 3mo ago

243341286 3mo ago

[dead]

GlacierFox 3mo ago

[flagged]

fer 3mo ago

I wouldn't call it two-tier justice, because generally the courts do the right thing, but there's a shamefully obvious two-tier policing. From the Jay Report [0] showing crimes swept under the rug according to ethnic/socioeconomic background of perp and victim, to arresting people for opposing genocide (sorry: terrorism!) [1] to the recent case of Henry Nowak [2], it's really hard not to see a two-tier policing in the UK. And this very submission; caring about privacy is seen grounds for being reported and potentially investigated, by a private company! Which suggests it's something already internalized, too, for people who resist big corp surveillance. Back in the 90s and before, the two-tier heavily punished the minorities, and in an overshooting overcorrection, now it's the other way around. Nowak getting handcuffed by cops going "I don't think you have [been stabbed] mate!" says it all. Unless it's regarding opposing/supporting Israel, then the two-tier flips and people with basic human decency and actual antisemites are pigeonholed together, nevermind their background. [0] https://www.rotherham.gov.uk/downloads/file/279/independent-inquiry-into-child-sexual-exploitation-in-rotherham https://www.rotherham.gov.uk/downloads/file/279/independent-... [1] https://newint.org/action/2025/i-oppose-genocide-ok https://newint.org/action/2025/i-oppose-genocide-ok [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Henry_Nowak https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Henry_Nowak

foldr 3mo ago
The Palestine Action ban was overturned by the courts. And putting this together with the Nowak case leads to an almost contradictory position. Whatever the issues with police handling of pro-Palestinian protestors, they're not instances of what the far right would call two-tier policing (i.e. the bogus claim that the police treat white people more harshly than other ethnic groups). For example, here is a poster who' all over this thread complaining about two-tier policing, but who supports the ban on PA: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48155504 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48155504 The more nuanced reality is that the police are extremely imperfect and treat all sorts of different groups of people unfairly in all sorts of different ways. That's indeed a problem, but it's not a political conspiracy.
- trumpdong 3mo ago
  The police are ignoring the courts and still arresting people for protesting PA.

foldr 3mo ago

There's a thought experiment in the philosophy of mind where your brain is gradually replaced, neuron by neuron, with artificial units that replicate the exact input and output mappings of the original neurons. The question, of course, is whether this change is accompanied by any change in your subjective conscious experience. I notice that a variant of this experiment is now playing out on HN in real time, with various commenters having their neuronal mappings gradually reshaped to match activation layers trained on Elon Musk's twitter feed. A few years ago it was possible to have conversations about the UK on HN. Now all you can really do is get into pointless arguments with biological instantiations of Grok. Unfortunately, there are vastly more people outside the UK consuming this nonsense than there are British people who can flag it or correct it. So in contrast to conversations about the US, it is very hard for perspectives grounded in reality to break through. If you look into it, the vast majority of the users stirring things up in this thread aren't in Britain, and most likely have little to no first-hand knowledge of what the country is like.

trumpdong 3mo ago
Very true, but not really related to the thought experiment you mentioned since that one doesn't change the behavior of each neuron.

snvzz 3mo ago

This[0] is what the UK has come to be. 0. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csBnAX6yS-U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csBnAX6yS-U