6 ms·

I’m feeling more a novice every day, but how isn’t this just handing over your code to team deepseek for whatever they might want

by Den_VR 4mo ago

embedding-shape 4mo ago
Not everyone is working with state secrets or user personal data (or even more closely guarded, company secrets) on a daily basis, most of what I hack on is either FOSS already, or will be, not much to keep secret here. Obviously, if you do deal with any sort of secrets, then using local LLMs over OpenAI, Anthropic, DeepSeek or whoever is obviously preferred, and in the case of personal data of users, probably a requirement.
- jack_pp 4mo ago
  either this or you work on software that even if copied won't get you far since the business relies on network effects or pure networking. Getting the source code of facebook or instagram doesn't mean you could compete with them. I work for a company that has built relationship with event organizers over the past 10 years. The code I maintain could be written from scratch in maybe 2-3 months even though it was built over the past 10 years but besides that you have frontend / DB / hardware / logistics etc
  - Demiurge 4mo ago
    I actually agree with you, for the most part. The code I work with actually does contain some valuable algorithms, but Im pretty sure the effort of integrating them into a larger system is pointless without the data. It’s almost like stealing half-life 2 source code without any assets. Still, “Getting the source code of facebook or instagram doesn't mean you could compete with them.” I think to giants like that, having access to their source code could open up some very interesting loop holes for manipulating the ranking algorithms, or even security vulnerabilities.
    - jack_pp 4mo ago
      True, haven't thought of that. However very few actual projects / companies are in a situation where the chinese GOVT would be interested to spend resources to hack your platform. For the ones that are afraid of that there's always self hosting of course
      - Den_VR 4mo ago
        I used to work with HVAC companies, and I noticed that many of their customers mistakenly believed they were purchasing air conditioners. They didn’t consider these devices, which they connected to the internet, as computers. Despite being systems that required user names, passwords, updates, monitoring, and other maintenance, the prevailing attitude among these customers was, “This is an appliance, and why would anyone care about my air conditioner?” All this to say, not even subject matter experts necessarily appreciate the risk involved in their work
oldmanhorton 4mo ago
You’re not a novice, there are a lot of us who know exactly what we are doing and see this as a huge downside. We are just being told to go faster, faster, faster lest we miss out on… something?
jijji 4mo ago
there's laws on the books in China that says that every company operating in China must aid and abet the Chinese government in espionage against the rest of the world. given those facts, I find it deeply troubling to be using anything coming out of China, especially a program that runs in the context of a Linux terminal on a machine that might have something important on it. I'd argue it's a back door waiting to happen, if not sooner than obviously later.
- subscribed 4mo ago
  I forbidden from working on the company code with DS, but if I have a private something that looks pretty much like one of the thousands repositories put there, it doesn't matter that much.
- _3u10 4mo ago
  FISA section 702 / Five eyes / Room 641A.
- goobatrooba 4mo ago
  As a European I have to admit I am these days more worried about the US than China. See yesterday's article about the US government forcing Microsoft to give them lists of Dutch government officials. Utter madness. At least the Chinese mainly care about the money and power levers, the US about strange worlds of revenge and manipulation, trying to change or influence your government. E.g. which of the two countries has put crippling personal sanctions on staff of the international criminal court? Honestly I'd love to love the US again, but basically after Obama things have just gone down and down and no soul will trust the US again in the next generation or two.
  - OtomotO 4mo ago
    Exactly this. I don't care about the US more than about Russia or China these days. They are definitely not our allies anymore.
    - dominotw 4mo ago
dudisubekti 4mo ago
Yeah, but it's miles better than giving Anthropic and OpenAI your data. At least Deepseek is releasing open-weight models and a lot of open-source libraries. If you're concerned about espionage then the only solution is host the models yourself, which again, only open-weight models like Deepseek enable you to do this.
spacedcowboy 4mo ago
Somehow I don't think DeepSeek will be that interested in a 6502 compiler [1]... 1: https://atari-xt.com/ https://atari-xt.com/

I’m feeling more a novice every day, but how isn’t this just handing over your code to team deepseek for whatever they might want

by Den_VR 4mo ago

I’m feeling more a novice every day, but how isn’t this just handing over your code to team deepseek for whatever they might want

embedding-shape 4mo ago

Not everyone is working with state secrets or user personal data (or even more closely guarded, company secrets) on a daily basis, most of what I hack on is either FOSS already, or will be, not much to keep secret here. Obviously, if you do deal with any sort of secrets, then using local LLMs over OpenAI, Anthropic, DeepSeek or whoever is obviously preferred, and in the case of personal data of users, probably a requirement.

jack_pp 4mo ago
either this or you work on software that even if copied won't get you far since the business relies on network effects or pure networking. Getting the source code of facebook or instagram doesn't mean you could compete with them. I work for a company that has built relationship with event organizers over the past 10 years. The code I maintain could be written from scratch in maybe 2-3 months even though it was built over the past 10 years but besides that you have frontend / DB / hardware / logistics etc
- Demiurge 4mo ago
  I actually agree with you, for the most part. The code I work with actually does contain some valuable algorithms, but Im pretty sure the effort of integrating them into a larger system is pointless without the data. It’s almost like stealing half-life 2 source code without any assets. Still, “Getting the source code of facebook or instagram doesn't mean you could compete with them.” I think to giants like that, having access to their source code could open up some very interesting loop holes for manipulating the ranking algorithms, or even security vulnerabilities.
  - jack_pp 4mo ago
    True, haven't thought of that. However very few actual projects / companies are in a situation where the chinese GOVT would be interested to spend resources to hack your platform. For the ones that are afraid of that there's always self hosting of course
    - Den_VR 4mo ago
      I used to work with HVAC companies, and I noticed that many of their customers mistakenly believed they were purchasing air conditioners. They didn’t consider these devices, which they connected to the internet, as computers. Despite being systems that required user names, passwords, updates, monitoring, and other maintenance, the prevailing attitude among these customers was, “This is an appliance, and why would anyone care about my air conditioner?” All this to say, not even subject matter experts necessarily appreciate the risk involved in their work

oldmanhorton 4mo ago

You’re not a novice, there are a lot of us who know exactly what we are doing and see this as a huge downside. We are just being told to go faster, faster, faster lest we miss out on… something?

jijji 4mo ago

there's laws on the books in China that says that every company operating in China must aid and abet the Chinese government in espionage against the rest of the world. given those facts, I find it deeply troubling to be using anything coming out of China, especially a program that runs in the context of a Linux terminal on a machine that might have something important on it. I'd argue it's a back door waiting to happen, if not sooner than obviously later.

subscribed 4mo ago
I forbidden from working on the company code with DS, but if I have a private something that looks pretty much like one of the thousands repositories put there, it doesn't matter that much.
_3u10 4mo ago
FISA section 702 / Five eyes / Room 641A.
goobatrooba 4mo ago
As a European I have to admit I am these days more worried about the US than China. See yesterday's article about the US government forcing Microsoft to give them lists of Dutch government officials. Utter madness. At least the Chinese mainly care about the money and power levers, the US about strange worlds of revenge and manipulation, trying to change or influence your government. E.g. which of the two countries has put crippling personal sanctions on staff of the international criminal court? Honestly I'd love to love the US again, but basically after Obama things have just gone down and down and no soul will trust the US again in the next generation or two.
- OtomotO 4mo ago
  Exactly this. I don't care about the US more than about Russia or China these days. They are definitely not our allies anymore.
  - dominotw 4mo ago

dudisubekti 4mo ago

Yeah, but it's miles better than giving Anthropic and OpenAI your data. At least Deepseek is releasing open-weight models and a lot of open-source libraries. If you're concerned about espionage then the only solution is host the models yourself, which again, only open-weight models like Deepseek enable you to do this.

spacedcowboy 4mo ago

Somehow I don't think DeepSeek will be that interested in a 6502 compiler [1]... 1: https://atari-xt.com/ https://atari-xt.com/