7 ms·

The C64 Dead Test Font

150 points by masswerk 4mo ago

rob74 4mo ago
In Germany (maybe also Austria?), that font is probably best known from the logo of major computer magazine/site CHIP (https://www.chip.de/ https://www.chip.de/). Although, for some unfathomable reason, the C in the "dead test font" doesn't have the characteristic "thickening" in the lower vertical part, although the G has it...
- daneel_w 4mo ago
  And so many variant typefaces of the same graphical language were seen in a million products during the home computer boom of the late 70s and early 80s. Iconic.
  - kevin_thibedeau 4mo ago
    It's a copy of the Westminster font from the 60s which was an adaption of the visual style of MICR digits and symbols to a full symbology (without being machine readable). It was a meme for computerbilia of the era that now seems quaint.
    - no-name-here 4mo ago
      > computerbilia Google finds 2 uses of this word - yours, and a ~1985 newsletter. However, its AI was able to guess it’s a combination of computer and memorabilia.
- scotty79 4mo ago
  The other thing that caught my eye is that M has the thickening on the opposite side to N. I thought it was for easier recognition of similar letters (same with A and R, O and Q), but U and V have the thickening on the same side. Maybe C vs G is the reason why C doesn't have the thickening.
- ikari_pl 4mo ago
  This is basically the MICR font: Magnetic Ink (!) Character Recognition. Amazing idea. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_ink_character_recognition https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_ink_character_recogni...
- flohofwoe 4mo ago
  ...it's been burned into my brain via the KC85 manuals (sroll down for the covers of various manuals): https://www.mpm-kc85.de/html/d001_kc85_3.htm https://www.mpm-kc85.de/html/d001_kc85_3.htm
- masswerk 4mo ago
  Regarding the shape of the letter "C", mind that of the 10 digits of the MICR E-18B font, the digits 2, 5, 6, 7, 0 don't have any "thickenings" at all, all thin, even strokes. That's 5 out of 10 or half of the traditional part of the set. So just "C" being similar may be actually an underrepresentation. (Maybe, a "true" MICR inspired font should have actually somewhat more modulation between characters.)
krige 4mo ago
Good ol' It's A Computer (tm) font. A good while back I've been using Westminster in every piece of UI I wrote for myself. Maybe I should start doing that again.
- jansan 4mo ago
  Here is an interesting first hand account about the history of Westminster. Interestingly the creator himself does not seem to know why the (IMO rather unfitting) name Westminster was chosen: https://www.mercerdesign.com/true-story-westminster-font/ https://www.mercerdesign.com/true-story-westminster-font/
  - no-name-here 4mo ago
    For those unfamiliar, the mentioned Berthold is a type foundry: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berthold_Type_Foundry https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berthold_Type_Foundry > Interestingly the creator himself does not seem to know why the (IMO rather unfitting) name Westminster was chosen Although it does say maybe it was named for Westminster bank? But yes nothing definite. (Unless it's a joke I don't understand.)
Chaosvex 4mo ago
Seeing typos like 'resulation' is now a nice hint that a human wrote the article. Nice exploration, bit of quirky fun.
- phrotoma 4mo ago
  > Even the glass dishes with tiny bubbles and imperfections, proof they were crafted by the honest, simple, hard-working indigenous peoples of wherever.
  - masswerk 4mo ago
    Every hand-knotted carpet has some error per design, since only Allah is perfect. But, I guess, "resulation" may be a bit blotchy for a sign of humbleness. :-)
    - robocat 4mo ago
      > some error per design A single minimum error by design would obviously be perfection. And it appears to be a myth story anyways - in truth Islamic carpet weavers do aim for perfection. I've always thought it would be a catch-22 gotcha rule. Dieties presumably choose to either (A) care about rules or (B) not care about rules. An ambiguous rule is dangerous - especially if intent was what mattered? The Japanese wabi-sabi is the core behind an equivalent folklore story I heard: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wabi-sabi https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wabi-sabi
- masswerk 4mo ago
  Sorry, I had to fix this. (You're welcome anyway. And yes, I think, it's the sort of quirky article, an LLM can't come up with.)
- benj111 4mo ago
  Don't say that, or else Ai will start inserting typos.
  - Chaosvex 4mo ago
bitwize 4mo ago
I love the "MICR line"-like appearance, fonts of which type were heavily used in the 1970s and 1980s to indicate "computer/technology stuff".
jansan 4mo ago
I am pretty sure that I saw that font on a C64 before. Paradroid used a very similar font for the logo, but the game itself uses a different font (Paradrew).
- daneel_w 4mo ago
  There are a hundred variants of it used in various software for the C64, the Amiga, the anything.
cousin_it 4mo ago
Reminds me of the font in Master of Orion: https://www.mobygames.com/game/212/master-of-orion/screenshots/dos/523585/ https://www.mobygames.com/game/212/master-of-orion/screensho...
hankbond 4mo ago
I was recently exploring fonts of the next decade from old Mac system 6-9 era on my still in progress personal blog site https://hankdoes.ai/design-system/ https://hankdoes.ai/design-system/ Thank you author for the font and the lovely dive into computing and type history!
dusted 4mo ago
Nice writeup! Yeah, that font! :D I didn't have a deadtest cart back in ancient times, but I built one when I built my first C64 (from PCB and up), and the first thing I did with that machine, was to boot it with the dead test cart.. Which didn't work because the PCB I got didn't wire the pins it needed.. I thought on it until I figured that hey! chip select pin!! And then I jumpered that pin and saw for the very first time, a brand new C64 come up and vomit garbage all over the screen because I had gotten a wrong chip! :D https://dusted.dk/pages/c64/MaxFake64/ https://dusted.dk/pages/c64/MaxFake64/
snvzz 4mo ago
>soldered it into a socket You... what? Why would you ever solder a chip into a socket, rather than just insert? (they clipped the original chip, instead of desoldering it. The socket is then inserted into another socket on the board. Workable trick but... why, just why.)
- masswerk 4mo ago
  – ? –
ardev111 4mo ago
[flagged]
_the_inflator 4mo ago
Another secret solved of the C64 mystery. Nice job. My first association fired up the many letter makers that existed at the time. Future Project build some great makers. They were common around 1986-87. They featured a whole bunch of character fonts along with highly popular sounds from Rob Hubbard on their disk, usually 10 to 15. I used the fonts and muziks as as starting point for my first endeavors into C64 assembly programming.
- masswerk 4mo ago
  I played around with one that, I think, was a type-in from Compute! Gazette. Since this was also the time of Umberto Eco's The Name of the Rose, I remember devising a medieval handwriting font (so quite the opposite, but fun!)…
frankdlc222 4mo ago
Definitely before my time working on computers... but I remember seeing this font in old computer magazines I came across when I was young and always thought it was really cool.

150 points by masswerk 4mo ago

rob74 4mo ago

In Germany (maybe also Austria?), that font is probably best known from the logo of major computer magazine/site CHIP (https://www.chip.de/ https://www.chip.de/). Although, for some unfathomable reason, the C in the "dead test font" doesn't have the characteristic "thickening" in the lower vertical part, although the G has it...

daneel_w 4mo ago
And so many variant typefaces of the same graphical language were seen in a million products during the home computer boom of the late 70s and early 80s. Iconic.
- kevin_thibedeau 4mo ago
  It's a copy of the Westminster font from the 60s which was an adaption of the visual style of MICR digits and symbols to a full symbology (without being machine readable). It was a meme for computerbilia of the era that now seems quaint.
  - no-name-here 4mo ago
    > computerbilia Google finds 2 uses of this word - yours, and a ~1985 newsletter. However, its AI was able to guess it’s a combination of computer and memorabilia.
scotty79 4mo ago
The other thing that caught my eye is that M has the thickening on the opposite side to N. I thought it was for easier recognition of similar letters (same with A and R, O and Q), but U and V have the thickening on the same side. Maybe C vs G is the reason why C doesn't have the thickening.
ikari_pl 4mo ago
This is basically the MICR font: Magnetic Ink (!) Character Recognition. Amazing idea. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_ink_character_recognition https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_ink_character_recogni...
flohofwoe 4mo ago
...it's been burned into my brain via the KC85 manuals (sroll down for the covers of various manuals): https://www.mpm-kc85.de/html/d001_kc85_3.htm https://www.mpm-kc85.de/html/d001_kc85_3.htm
masswerk 4mo ago
Regarding the shape of the letter "C", mind that of the 10 digits of the MICR E-18B font, the digits 2, 5, 6, 7, 0 don't have any "thickenings" at all, all thin, even strokes. That's 5 out of 10 or half of the traditional part of the set. So just "C" being similar may be actually an underrepresentation. (Maybe, a "true" MICR inspired font should have actually somewhat more modulation between characters.)

krige 4mo ago

Good ol' It's A Computer (tm) font. A good while back I've been using Westminster in every piece of UI I wrote for myself. Maybe I should start doing that again.

jansan 4mo ago
Here is an interesting first hand account about the history of Westminster. Interestingly the creator himself does not seem to know why the (IMO rather unfitting) name Westminster was chosen: https://www.mercerdesign.com/true-story-westminster-font/ https://www.mercerdesign.com/true-story-westminster-font/
- no-name-here 4mo ago
  For those unfamiliar, the mentioned Berthold is a type foundry: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berthold_Type_Foundry https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berthold_Type_Foundry > Interestingly the creator himself does not seem to know why the (IMO rather unfitting) name Westminster was chosen Although it does say maybe it was named for Westminster bank? But yes nothing definite. (Unless it's a joke I don't understand.)

Chaosvex 4mo ago

Seeing typos like 'resulation' is now a nice hint that a human wrote the article. Nice exploration, bit of quirky fun.

phrotoma 4mo ago
> Even the glass dishes with tiny bubbles and imperfections, proof they were crafted by the honest, simple, hard-working indigenous peoples of wherever.
- masswerk 4mo ago
  Every hand-knotted carpet has some error per design, since only Allah is perfect. But, I guess, "resulation" may be a bit blotchy for a sign of humbleness. :-)
  - robocat 4mo ago
    > some error per design A single minimum error by design would obviously be perfection. And it appears to be a myth story anyways - in truth Islamic carpet weavers do aim for perfection. I've always thought it would be a catch-22 gotcha rule. Dieties presumably choose to either (A) care about rules or (B) not care about rules. An ambiguous rule is dangerous - especially if intent was what mattered? The Japanese wabi-sabi is the core behind an equivalent folklore story I heard: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wabi-sabi https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wabi-sabi
masswerk 4mo ago
Sorry, I had to fix this. (You're welcome anyway. And yes, I think, it's the sort of quirky article, an LLM can't come up with.)
benj111 4mo ago
Don't say that, or else Ai will start inserting typos.
- Chaosvex 4mo ago

bitwize 4mo ago

I love the "MICR line"-like appearance, fonts of which type were heavily used in the 1970s and 1980s to indicate "computer/technology stuff".

jansan 4mo ago

I am pretty sure that I saw that font on a C64 before. Paradroid used a very similar font for the logo, but the game itself uses a different font (Paradrew).

daneel_w 4mo ago
There are a hundred variants of it used in various software for the C64, the Amiga, the anything.

cousin_it 4mo ago

Reminds me of the font in Master of Orion: https://www.mobygames.com/game/212/master-of-orion/screenshots/dos/523585/ https://www.mobygames.com/game/212/master-of-orion/screensho...

hankbond 4mo ago

I was recently exploring fonts of the next decade from old Mac system 6-9 era on my still in progress personal blog site https://hankdoes.ai/design-system/ https://hankdoes.ai/design-system/ Thank you author for the font and the lovely dive into computing and type history!

dusted 4mo ago

Nice writeup! Yeah, that font! :D I didn't have a deadtest cart back in ancient times, but I built one when I built my first C64 (from PCB and up), and the first thing I did with that machine, was to boot it with the dead test cart.. Which didn't work because the PCB I got didn't wire the pins it needed.. I thought on it until I figured that hey! chip select pin!! And then I jumpered that pin and saw for the very first time, a brand new C64 come up and vomit garbage all over the screen because I had gotten a wrong chip! :D https://dusted.dk/pages/c64/MaxFake64/ https://dusted.dk/pages/c64/MaxFake64/

snvzz 4mo ago

>soldered it into a socket You... what? Why would you ever solder a chip into a socket, rather than just insert? (they clipped the original chip, instead of desoldering it. The socket is then inserted into another socket on the board. Workable trick but... why, just why.)

masswerk 4mo ago
– ? –

ardev111 4mo ago

[flagged]

_the_inflator 4mo ago

Another secret solved of the C64 mystery. Nice job. My first association fired up the many letter makers that existed at the time. Future Project build some great makers. They were common around 1986-87. They featured a whole bunch of character fonts along with highly popular sounds from Rob Hubbard on their disk, usually 10 to 15. I used the fonts and muziks as as starting point for my first endeavors into C64 assembly programming.

masswerk 4mo ago
I played around with one that, I think, was a type-in from Compute! Gazette. Since this was also the time of Umberto Eco's The Name of the Rose, I remember devising a medieval handwriting font (so quite the opposite, but fun!)…

frankdlc222 4mo ago

Definitely before my time working on computers... but I remember seeing this font in old computer magazines I came across when I was young and always thought it was really cool.