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The US isn’t what it used to be. It’s definitely not the best place in the world to live for quality of life, on basically any metric. The requirement of being

The US isn’t what it used to be. It’s definitely not the best place in the world to live for quality of life, on basically any metric. The requirement of being permanently obligated to pay us taxes on global income, if you have any kind of global mobility, is not worth it when you look at the situation objectively. The US is the only country that requires this, and signing up is voluntarily. So while US immigration continues to act as though people will jump through any hoop they put up in order to be granted the extreme privilege of being able to live in the country indefinitely, it’s worth realising it’s not the 70s anymore and thats a goal many people are no longer optimizing for. In fact the opposite - the most talented people I know are all planning their lives to not settle long term in the US.

itkovian_ 4mo ago
The extreme privilege of being forced to pay a major portion of all income you make, regardless of where you earn it, to the us gov indefinitely. And they make it hard for you to apply to do this. Crazy.
- deleted 4mo ago
  [deleted]
- paulddraper 4mo ago
  And yet why do people want this?
- vel0city 4mo ago
  > being forced to pay a major portion of all income you make, regardless of where you earn it If you're a US citizen living abroad you get a Foreign Earned Income Exclusion of $130,000 for 2025 taxes. So if your income was $130k you'd pay zero in US taxes. You potentially also get to deduct housing costs and get a credit for foreign taxes you already paid among other things. If you're paying a "major portion of your income" as a US citizen living overseas you're probably pretty dang wealthy. Go wipe your tears with your bands of $100 bills.
  - rwarfield 4mo ago
    The FEIE and foreign tax credits are just there to limit the scope of double taxation, and often they can't even do that much. Then you have to consider the cost of compliance, requiring specialist tax advice encompassing two countries; the difficulty of obtaining financial services because of FATCA; the frequent impossibility of saving for retirement because of the way the U.S. treats foreign investment funds (PFIC). There's a reason no other country on earth tries to do this.
    - deleted 4mo ago
      [deleted]
    - vel0city 4mo ago
      > double taxation Boo hoo double taxation. Normal people get double, triple, quadruple taxed all the time. I get (at least) double taxed every gallon of gas I pump. I get quadruple taxed just having a roof over my head. My labor gets FICA taxes (a collection of multiple taxes), payroll taxes, federal income taxes, and potentially state income taxes. Your million dollar stock trade hit a few different tax jurisdictions, boo hoo. Miss me with crying about "double taxation" nonsense, it's a phrase rich people use to make poor people feel sorry for them. > consider the cost of compliance Oh so sad wealthy people have so many bags of money they can't keep track of them all themselves. Sounds terrible. Maybe they should sell all those assets and give the money away and rid themselves of such hardships. Send me a message, I'll take those struggles off your hand and relieve you of such burdens. > the frequent impossibility of saving for retirement You're already clearing more income free and clear from a US tax basis than most US households do. If you find it impossible to save for retirement after making probably far more than $130k (remember, the standard was "a major portion" of your income) then you should really think about how fucked the vast majority of your fellow citizens are. It's pretty tone deaf complaining about how heavy all these bars of gold are.
parineum 4mo ago
> It’s definitely not the best place in the world to live for quality of life, on basically any metric. I guess these immigrants must be stupid.
- markdown 4mo ago
  The President confirmed this. They're not sending their best.
  - array_key_first 4mo ago
    Literally how could he possibly know that? He's just saying racist things because he's obviously a racist. Haitian immigrants aren't eating cats or dogs either, we need to stop listening to him as an authority on anything. If Donald Trump is saying something, you should automatically assume it's a lie. Any other course of action isn't reasonable.
    - markdown 4mo ago
      That comment was written tongue-in-cheek.
- testing22321 4mo ago
  To be perfectly clear. The US has a much higher standard of living than the vast majority of countries in the world and people from those countries hope to improve their lives by moving there. The US has a lower standard of living than basically all OECD countries. To use a sports analogy, the US is last place on the pro league ladder, while also being first place on the “everyone else” ladder.
  - noobermin 4mo ago
    Also there is a bit of inertia. In people's imaginations, the US still seems to glimmer, even if the reality isn't the same.
  - anon7725 4mo ago
wg0 4mo ago
There's a term called "US Person". Many European banks will refuse to open your bank account if you're a "US Person" and require upfront declaration that I'm not a "US Person." Reason? Because banks don't want to deal with the mandatory annual reporting of the "US Persons" to US government on regular basis. Their solution? Don't have a "US Person" as your client.
- zeafoamrun 4mo ago
  This appears to have been downvoted but everything is completely factual in what the parent poster said. I have literally been told by many banks they can't help me due to this.
- MikeNotThePope 4mo ago
  I’m an American living abroad. I know a bit about this. Here’s my experience: - The USA passed a law called the Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act (FATCA), which mandates that any bank doing business with Americans overseas must report certain information to the USA: https://www.irs.gov/businesses/corporations/foreign-account-tax-compliance-act-fatca https://www.irs.gov/businesses/corporations/foreign-account-... - When anyone anywhere in the world opens a bank account, the bank asks if you have ever been a “US Person,” and if you have been, then you need to provide documentation about whether you currently are or aren’t (typically showing a USA passport or proof of having renounced USA citizenship) - For banks that will work with Americans, they have to report basic information back to the USA every year, which includes highlights like your contact information, tax ID, account numbers, end-of-year balance, etc. - Americans also must self-report this kind of information via the FBAR (Report of Foreign Bank and Financial Accounts, technically FinCEN Form 114), which isn’t too horrible to fill out other than the fact that you file it through FinCEN’s clunky BSA E-Filing system, which still wants you to install Adobe Acrobat Reader like it’s 2010. - FATCA is primarily annoying to banks because they already have to comply with CRS, the Common Reporting Standard, which is basically an international standard developed by the OECD (Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development) where participating countries automatically report each other’s residents’ financial information. The kicker is that the USA never actually joined CRS, so banks have to run a whole separate FATCA process just for a relatively small number of Americans living abroad, which is a big duplication of effort.
gpt5 4mo ago
People said the same when the $100K fee for H1b was introduced, and said that the US won't be able to fill the 85,000 spots. But there were 211,600 applications in the last cycle. Also, your other 'facts' are incorrect. The US for example has the highest amount of disposable income per family, has a lower tax burden (despite your complaint about it) then almost all developed countries, and there is one more (small) country with global taxation.
- zeafoamrun 4mo ago
  USA joins the esteemed nation of Liberia in having global taxation.
  - QGQBGdeZREunxLe 4mo ago
    Eritrea too.
- QGQBGdeZREunxLe 4mo ago
  They're not collecting 85,000 * $100k. I'd guess the majority will be adjustments and therefore circumvent the fee.
  - gpt5 4mo ago
    Correct - it has significantly shifted the makeup: 1. Master degree holders increased from 57.0% to 71.5% 2. Average wage increased by ~30% (estimated from the massive drop in the number of applications from the lowest category. 3. The balance has shifted from foreign workers to students in the US (F-1 visa), because they are exempt from the $100K fee. I actually wish HN covered this, as many people were complaining about H1b being abused by abusive software companies bringing in cheap labor. About how hard it is for students studying in America to stay in America, etc. But now we can't actually discuss a topic without attributing it to a person, so if it's attributed to Trump, all discussions become a shitshow.
freediver 4mo ago
> The US isn’t what it used to be. It’s definitely not the best place in the world to live for quality of life, on basically any metric. There is actually a list with metrics https://greatcountry.org https://greatcountry.org (disclaimer: my pet project) #27th
- SCdF 4mo ago
  Interesting project! I would say some of the indicators are a little odd. Some of them are questionable in terms of capturing the spirit of the idea ("violent crime" being the same in the UK and the US is a surprising one to me for example. It's capturing serious assault per 100k, but is then not considering murder as violent crime. You have murder later, but maybe combine / group them?). Some are confusing because they are not clear politically: everyone wants less violent crime, but I don't know your politics and so have no idea which direction you have weighted net migration and asylum/capita.
  - freediver 4mo ago
    All 37 factors are equal weighted.
matwood 4mo ago
> The requirement of being permanently obligated to pay us taxes on global income Many countries have higher rates than the US and have reciprocal treaties to avoid double taxation. In practice it means many people end up paying zero taxes to the US. Of course it will depend on the country you want to reside in, but then what's the point of seeking out a US passport?

itkovian_ 4mo ago

The extreme privilege of being forced to pay a major portion of all income you make, regardless of where you earn it, to the us gov indefinitely. And they make it hard for you to apply to do this. Crazy.

deleted 4mo ago
[deleted]
paulddraper 4mo ago
And yet why do people want this?
vel0city 4mo ago
> being forced to pay a major portion of all income you make, regardless of where you earn it If you're a US citizen living abroad you get a Foreign Earned Income Exclusion of $130,000 for 2025 taxes. So if your income was $130k you'd pay zero in US taxes. You potentially also get to deduct housing costs and get a credit for foreign taxes you already paid among other things. If you're paying a "major portion of your income" as a US citizen living overseas you're probably pretty dang wealthy. Go wipe your tears with your bands of $100 bills.
- rwarfield 4mo ago
  The FEIE and foreign tax credits are just there to limit the scope of double taxation, and often they can't even do that much. Then you have to consider the cost of compliance, requiring specialist tax advice encompassing two countries; the difficulty of obtaining financial services because of FATCA; the frequent impossibility of saving for retirement because of the way the U.S. treats foreign investment funds (PFIC). There's a reason no other country on earth tries to do this.
  - deleted 4mo ago
    [deleted]
  - vel0city 4mo ago
    > double taxation Boo hoo double taxation. Normal people get double, triple, quadruple taxed all the time. I get (at least) double taxed every gallon of gas I pump. I get quadruple taxed just having a roof over my head. My labor gets FICA taxes (a collection of multiple taxes), payroll taxes, federal income taxes, and potentially state income taxes. Your million dollar stock trade hit a few different tax jurisdictions, boo hoo. Miss me with crying about "double taxation" nonsense, it's a phrase rich people use to make poor people feel sorry for them. > consider the cost of compliance Oh so sad wealthy people have so many bags of money they can't keep track of them all themselves. Sounds terrible. Maybe they should sell all those assets and give the money away and rid themselves of such hardships. Send me a message, I'll take those struggles off your hand and relieve you of such burdens. > the frequent impossibility of saving for retirement You're already clearing more income free and clear from a US tax basis than most US households do. If you find it impossible to save for retirement after making probably far more than $130k (remember, the standard was "a major portion" of your income) then you should really think about how fucked the vast majority of your fellow citizens are. It's pretty tone deaf complaining about how heavy all these bars of gold are.

parineum 4mo ago

> It’s definitely not the best place in the world to live for quality of life, on basically any metric. I guess these immigrants must be stupid.

markdown 4mo ago
The President confirmed this. They're not sending their best.
- array_key_first 4mo ago
  Literally how could he possibly know that? He's just saying racist things because he's obviously a racist. Haitian immigrants aren't eating cats or dogs either, we need to stop listening to him as an authority on anything. If Donald Trump is saying something, you should automatically assume it's a lie. Any other course of action isn't reasonable.
  - markdown 4mo ago
    That comment was written tongue-in-cheek.
testing22321 4mo ago
To be perfectly clear. The US has a much higher standard of living than the vast majority of countries in the world and people from those countries hope to improve their lives by moving there. The US has a lower standard of living than basically all OECD countries. To use a sports analogy, the US is last place on the pro league ladder, while also being first place on the “everyone else” ladder.
- noobermin 4mo ago
  Also there is a bit of inertia. In people's imaginations, the US still seems to glimmer, even if the reality isn't the same.
- anon7725 4mo ago

wg0 4mo ago

There's a term called "US Person". Many European banks will refuse to open your bank account if you're a "US Person" and require upfront declaration that I'm not a "US Person." Reason? Because banks don't want to deal with the mandatory annual reporting of the "US Persons" to US government on regular basis. Their solution? Don't have a "US Person" as your client.

zeafoamrun 4mo ago
This appears to have been downvoted but everything is completely factual in what the parent poster said. I have literally been told by many banks they can't help me due to this.
MikeNotThePope 4mo ago
I’m an American living abroad. I know a bit about this. Here’s my experience: - The USA passed a law called the Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act (FATCA), which mandates that any bank doing business with Americans overseas must report certain information to the USA: https://www.irs.gov/businesses/corporations/foreign-account-tax-compliance-act-fatca https://www.irs.gov/businesses/corporations/foreign-account-... - When anyone anywhere in the world opens a bank account, the bank asks if you have ever been a “US Person,” and if you have been, then you need to provide documentation about whether you currently are or aren’t (typically showing a USA passport or proof of having renounced USA citizenship) - For banks that will work with Americans, they have to report basic information back to the USA every year, which includes highlights like your contact information, tax ID, account numbers, end-of-year balance, etc. - Americans also must self-report this kind of information via the FBAR (Report of Foreign Bank and Financial Accounts, technically FinCEN Form 114), which isn’t too horrible to fill out other than the fact that you file it through FinCEN’s clunky BSA E-Filing system, which still wants you to install Adobe Acrobat Reader like it’s 2010. - FATCA is primarily annoying to banks because they already have to comply with CRS, the Common Reporting Standard, which is basically an international standard developed by the OECD (Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development) where participating countries automatically report each other’s residents’ financial information. The kicker is that the USA never actually joined CRS, so banks have to run a whole separate FATCA process just for a relatively small number of Americans living abroad, which is a big duplication of effort.

gpt5 4mo ago

People said the same when the $100K fee for H1b was introduced, and said that the US won't be able to fill the 85,000 spots. But there were 211,600 applications in the last cycle. Also, your other 'facts' are incorrect. The US for example has the highest amount of disposable income per family, has a lower tax burden (despite your complaint about it) then almost all developed countries, and there is one more (small) country with global taxation.

zeafoamrun 4mo ago
USA joins the esteemed nation of Liberia in having global taxation.
- QGQBGdeZREunxLe 4mo ago
  Eritrea too.
QGQBGdeZREunxLe 4mo ago
They're not collecting 85,000 * $100k. I'd guess the majority will be adjustments and therefore circumvent the fee.
- gpt5 4mo ago
  Correct - it has significantly shifted the makeup: 1. Master degree holders increased from 57.0% to 71.5% 2. Average wage increased by ~30% (estimated from the massive drop in the number of applications from the lowest category. 3. The balance has shifted from foreign workers to students in the US (F-1 visa), because they are exempt from the $100K fee. I actually wish HN covered this, as many people were complaining about H1b being abused by abusive software companies bringing in cheap labor. About how hard it is for students studying in America to stay in America, etc. But now we can't actually discuss a topic without attributing it to a person, so if it's attributed to Trump, all discussions become a shitshow.

freediver 4mo ago

> The US isn’t what it used to be. It’s definitely not the best place in the world to live for quality of life, on basically any metric. There is actually a list with metrics https://greatcountry.org https://greatcountry.org (disclaimer: my pet project) #27th

SCdF 4mo ago
Interesting project! I would say some of the indicators are a little odd. Some of them are questionable in terms of capturing the spirit of the idea ("violent crime" being the same in the UK and the US is a surprising one to me for example. It's capturing serious assault per 100k, but is then not considering murder as violent crime. You have murder later, but maybe combine / group them?). Some are confusing because they are not clear politically: everyone wants less violent crime, but I don't know your politics and so have no idea which direction you have weighted net migration and asylum/capita.
- freediver 4mo ago
  All 37 factors are equal weighted.

matwood 4mo ago

> The requirement of being permanently obligated to pay us taxes on global income Many countries have higher rates than the US and have reciprocal treaties to avoid double taxation. In practice it means many people end up paying zero taxes to the US. Of course it will depend on the country you want to reside in, but then what's the point of seeking out a US passport?