6 ms·

Lol, the USA is the one who creates havoc and started this mess in the first place. What international order?!

by crikeykangaroo 4mo ago

ihsw 4mo ago
[dead]
Ajedi32 4mo ago
Iran is the one blocking the strait, not the US.
- Supermancho 4mo ago
  The chain of events did not start there. 20 years ago it was not blocked, although it well could have been. ie A car hits a pedestrian. Claiming the pedestrian did damage to the car's fender misses the context of the conflict.
  - Ajedi32 4mo ago
    The chain of events probably started something like 2000 years ago depending on how you count it. The fact remains that threatening the ships of peaceful commercial traffic by uninvolved nations is entirely Iran's doing.
    - amanaplanacanal 4mo ago
      As they say, all's fair in love and war. Trump was certainly warned that this would be Iran's response, and started bombing anyway. Trying to absolve the US administration of this is just propaganda.
      - Ajedi32 4mo ago
        Trying to absolve the US administration of Iran's actions? Again, my whole point here is that the US is not the one blocking the strait. The US is not responsible for the actions of an enemy nation, predictable or not.
        amanaplanacanal 4mo ago
        Ahem: https://www.politico.com/news/2026/04/12/trump-announces-strait-of-hormuz-blockade-after-iran-talks-collapse-00868375 https://www.politico.com/news/2026/04/12/trump-announces-str...
        Ajedi32 4mo ago
        I don't see any issue with the US blocking countries from giving monetary aid to Iran (which the US is at war with). That's not "blockading the strait", contrary to the headline. Neutral vessels can pass freely (or rather they could if Iran wasn't threatening to blow them up).
- dylan604 4mo ago
  Iran is blocking transit of ships bearing the flag of countries it opposes. The US is blocking all other ships of countries Iran supports.
  - Ajedi32 4mo ago
    This might be outdated, but last I heard the US was only blocking ships going to/from Iran and ships which paid Iran's protection money, right? Not all traffic through the strait? And for Iran it seems "countries it opposes" is basically everyone...
    - dylan604 4mo ago
      Iran was quite happy to let Chinese and Russian flagged ships to pass. Now, the US is blocking those as well as anything heading toward Iran. The US recently had a short lived Operation Dumb Name to have the US Navy escort ships out of the straight. It lasted less than 48 hours.
      - Ajedi32 4mo ago
        I stand corrected then. Blocking "anything heading toward Iran" is perfectly reasonable given they're at war, and blocking Russian ships makes sense given the separate ongoing conflict in Ukraine, but I don't really see the point in the US blocking Chinese ships going to countries that aren't Iran, unless there's credible evidence China is giving direct aid to Iran. Is there? Otherwise, allowing them through seems like a pretty easy way to fix the oil shortage without much downside, at least until Iran starts blocking them again.
        dylan604 4mo ago
        China is buying the oil. They don't care about US Sanctions. Not really sure what you mean by easy way to fix the shortage. Twenty percent of the world's oil trade is no longer trading because the straight is closed. The US is playing a game of "if we can't have any, nobody can have any".
- stanleykm 4mo ago
  i wonder why that happened
- maleldil 4mo ago
  What is this argument? Iran only started blocking after they were attacked by the US. They didn't wake up one day and decided to block the strait. If something happened due to your unprovoked action, it's your fault.
  - Ajedi32 4mo ago
    > If something happened due to your unprovoked action, it's your fault. So if I punch somebody in the face and they respond by pulling out a gun and shooting an innocent bystander, I can be punished for murder? That's not even remotely how moral responsibility works. People (and nations) are responsible for their own actions, not the actions of others.
    - maleldil 4mo ago
      It's not a punch in the face. The US executed decapitation strikes meant to kill the country's leadership and bombed civilians. Your analogy doesn't apply.
      - Ajedi32 4mo ago
        That wasn't an analogy, it was a counterexample to your assertion that "If something happened due to your unprovoked action, it's your fault." That's simply not true when the "something" that happened is another person's doing.

Lol, the USA is the one who creates havoc and started this mess in the first place. What international order?!

ihsw 4mo ago

[dead]

Ajedi32 4mo ago

Iran is the one blocking the strait, not the US.

Supermancho 4mo ago
The chain of events did not start there. 20 years ago it was not blocked, although it well could have been. ie A car hits a pedestrian. Claiming the pedestrian did damage to the car's fender misses the context of the conflict.
- Ajedi32 4mo ago
  The chain of events probably started something like 2000 years ago depending on how you count it. The fact remains that threatening the ships of peaceful commercial traffic by uninvolved nations is entirely Iran's doing.
  - amanaplanacanal 4mo ago
    As they say, all's fair in love and war. Trump was certainly warned that this would be Iran's response, and started bombing anyway. Trying to absolve the US administration of this is just propaganda.
    - Ajedi32 4mo ago
      Trying to absolve the US administration of Iran's actions? Again, my whole point here is that the US is not the one blocking the strait. The US is not responsible for the actions of an enemy nation, predictable or not.
      - amanaplanacanal 4mo ago
        Ahem: https://www.politico.com/news/2026/04/12/trump-announces-strait-of-hormuz-blockade-after-iran-talks-collapse-00868375 https://www.politico.com/news/2026/04/12/trump-announces-str...
        Ajedi32 4mo ago
        I don't see any issue with the US blocking countries from giving monetary aid to Iran (which the US is at war with). That's not "blockading the strait", contrary to the headline. Neutral vessels can pass freely (or rather they could if Iran wasn't threatening to blow them up).
dylan604 4mo ago
Iran is blocking transit of ships bearing the flag of countries it opposes. The US is blocking all other ships of countries Iran supports.
- Ajedi32 4mo ago
  This might be outdated, but last I heard the US was only blocking ships going to/from Iran and ships which paid Iran's protection money, right? Not all traffic through the strait? And for Iran it seems "countries it opposes" is basically everyone...
  - dylan604 4mo ago
    Iran was quite happy to let Chinese and Russian flagged ships to pass. Now, the US is blocking those as well as anything heading toward Iran. The US recently had a short lived Operation Dumb Name to have the US Navy escort ships out of the straight. It lasted less than 48 hours.
    - Ajedi32 4mo ago
      I stand corrected then. Blocking "anything heading toward Iran" is perfectly reasonable given they're at war, and blocking Russian ships makes sense given the separate ongoing conflict in Ukraine, but I don't really see the point in the US blocking Chinese ships going to countries that aren't Iran, unless there's credible evidence China is giving direct aid to Iran. Is there? Otherwise, allowing them through seems like a pretty easy way to fix the oil shortage without much downside, at least until Iran starts blocking them again.
      - dylan604 4mo ago
        China is buying the oil. They don't care about US Sanctions. Not really sure what you mean by easy way to fix the shortage. Twenty percent of the world's oil trade is no longer trading because the straight is closed. The US is playing a game of "if we can't have any, nobody can have any".
stanleykm 4mo ago
i wonder why that happened
maleldil 4mo ago
What is this argument? Iran only started blocking after they were attacked by the US. They didn't wake up one day and decided to block the strait. If something happened due to your unprovoked action, it's your fault.
- Ajedi32 4mo ago
  > If something happened due to your unprovoked action, it's your fault. So if I punch somebody in the face and they respond by pulling out a gun and shooting an innocent bystander, I can be punished for murder? That's not even remotely how moral responsibility works. People (and nations) are responsible for their own actions, not the actions of others.
  - maleldil 4mo ago
    It's not a punch in the face. The US executed decapitation strikes meant to kill the country's leadership and bombed civilians. Your analogy doesn't apply.
    - Ajedi32 4mo ago
      That wasn't an analogy, it was a counterexample to your assertion that "If something happened due to your unprovoked action, it's your fault." That's simply not true when the "something" that happened is another person's doing.