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Lots of historical precedent for an intellectual elite ignoring the perception and needs of the common folk leading to an uprising. I'd imagine every great(in

Lots of historical precedent for an intellectual elite ignoring the perception and needs of the common folk leading to an uprising. I'd imagine every great(in scale/importance) uprising/political tumult had some aspect of "but they're ruining everything!" Everything for intellectuals and people with ties to the system that was functioning for that minority. Coal miners don't care that international students aren't coming to the US anymore. That's not an important factor for them. Edit: My point here is that you don't need hindsight to see how this aligns with historic precedent.

exitb 4mo ago
> intellectual elite ignoring the perception and needs of the common folk Isn’t that what the common folk chose? Was some of that not clear before the election?
ZeroGravitas 4mo ago
Grad students outnumber coalminers 70:1, if they're roughly half international which another comment claims, that's still a big difference.
- slg 4mo ago
  The way "coal miners" are discussed would also likely be something that puzzles historians. There are approximately 45,000 coal miners in the US, that's roughly equivalent to the combined enrollment of Harvard and MIT. There are more university students in the relatively small city of Cambridge, Massachusetts than there are people mining coal in the US and yet we have to pretend the latter are a constituency worth considering.
  - JumpCrisscross 4mo ago
    > yet we have to pretend the latter are a constituency worth considering The Clines, Justices and even Manchins have money. The miners are almost irrelevant.
  - deleted 4mo ago
    [deleted]
  - metalforever 4mo ago
    I am a programmer that comes from a family of coal miners. They don't actually consider that constituency, its just a game to win a swing state.
  - stevenwoo 4mo ago
    But supporting industry of coal mining/coal power plants gets money to tilt or buy senators and their votes - college students are too sparsely distributed to have an equivalent effect in USA. It only took one senator to give us an completely unregulated supplements industry.
dxdm 4mo ago
There is historical precedent for uprisings. Those are usually messy and do not tend to leave most people doing the uprising better off. Much more precedent for new elites putting themselves into a position of power while purporting to be channeling a popular uprising on behalf and for the benefit of the "common folk", who again do not end up better off for it, often quite the opposite. It's sad and frustrating to see this play out again and again. As you say, you don't need hindsight to see how it aligns with history.
Arodex 4mo ago
The Confederates' common folks tried to burn the USA to the ground to save their inalienable right to own slaves. Who will listen to the "perception and needs" of the racist, misogynistic common folks who want to impose their religious liberty (by banning abortion) and and elevate their financial situation (by pushing downward brown and black people)? (The GOP, that's who.) And don't you tell me it's a minority, when less than a week after the Supreme Court made the VRA null in practice, half a dozen states are rushing to eliminate any black representation. The whole GOP in those states (who already found a way to practice slavery through their carceral system - yes, there are black people picking cotton under the guard of armed white people on horses right now, today) is unanimous in erasing any power from black people. It is their first and foremost priority right now, despite everything else going on.
- Zigurd 4mo ago
  We need to finish Reconstruction. That sounds idealistic, even pie in the sky unrealistic. But we could certainly measure progress in that direction: US incarceration rates are insanely high, and the prison industrial complex is modern slavery. We would know victory when we put fewer people in prison than China, for example. That's not the only symptom, or the only measure of progress. But it would be a good start.
- JumpCrisscross 4mo ago
  > Confederates' common folks tried to burn the USA to the ground to save their inalienable right to own slaves Something I learned at The Old Slave Mart Museum in Charleston [1] is that Southern slaveowners were almost all terifically leveraged. Slaves were purchased predominantly with borrowed money (from, I might add, the North). And slaves were expensive, making up a significant if not dominating fraction of estates' assets. For Southern elites, therefore, abolition was an existential question. It meant bankruptcy and poverty, with insult added to injury in their creditors being Northerners. To my knowledge (and I'm no expert in this) the question of abolition paired with debt forgiveness was never seriously discussed by the Union. So yes, Confederate racism absolutely condemns its common folk. But even a moderately well-read Southern commoner would understand that abolition meant financial crisis, taking out their communities' largest tax payers, donors, consumers and employers in one swoop. I didn't walk away from the Museum sympathetic to slavery. But I did become more sympathetic to the South; in particular, to their bewildering decisions to continue prosecuting a war they were so very obviously, from a history textbook's perspective, losing. (To be clear, slavery is wrong. The South seceding was stupid. Not suing for peace after Gettysburg and Vicksburg stupider still.) [1] https://theoldslavemartmuseum.org https://theoldslavemartmuseum.org
Ar-Curunir 4mo ago
The professors, graduate students, and staff (not admins) are all working class. They are not some kind of elite in society. The median professor makes less than, say, an electrician. I am a professor in a good school, and I could probably triple my pay by going to industry. This propaganda needs to stop.
- mnbpdx 4mo ago
  Yeah, I agree: "academic/intellectual/educated person" != "owner class" I feel like that's the big misunderstanding between working class libs & working class conservatives. I'm (working class liberal who went to college) not the one oppressing you (working class conservative). We make basically the same money and hold the same power, lol. Clever of the (actual) conservative elites (1%, billionaires) to shift the blame to the intellectual class, when we don't own shit. We just piss you (working class conservatives) off at Thanksgiving with "new ideas" so we're an easy target.

exitb 4mo ago

> intellectual elite ignoring the perception and needs of the common folk Isn’t that what the common folk chose? Was some of that not clear before the election?

ZeroGravitas 4mo ago

Grad students outnumber coalminers 70:1, if they're roughly half international which another comment claims, that's still a big difference.

slg 4mo ago
The way "coal miners" are discussed would also likely be something that puzzles historians. There are approximately 45,000 coal miners in the US, that's roughly equivalent to the combined enrollment of Harvard and MIT. There are more university students in the relatively small city of Cambridge, Massachusetts than there are people mining coal in the US and yet we have to pretend the latter are a constituency worth considering.
- JumpCrisscross 4mo ago
  > yet we have to pretend the latter are a constituency worth considering The Clines, Justices and even Manchins have money. The miners are almost irrelevant.
- deleted 4mo ago
  [deleted]
- metalforever 4mo ago
  I am a programmer that comes from a family of coal miners. They don't actually consider that constituency, its just a game to win a swing state.
- stevenwoo 4mo ago
  But supporting industry of coal mining/coal power plants gets money to tilt or buy senators and their votes - college students are too sparsely distributed to have an equivalent effect in USA. It only took one senator to give us an completely unregulated supplements industry.

dxdm 4mo ago

There is historical precedent for uprisings. Those are usually messy and do not tend to leave most people doing the uprising better off. Much more precedent for new elites putting themselves into a position of power while purporting to be channeling a popular uprising on behalf and for the benefit of the "common folk", who again do not end up better off for it, often quite the opposite. It's sad and frustrating to see this play out again and again. As you say, you don't need hindsight to see how it aligns with history.

Arodex 4mo ago

The Confederates' common folks tried to burn the USA to the ground to save their inalienable right to own slaves. Who will listen to the "perception and needs" of the racist, misogynistic common folks who want to impose their religious liberty (by banning abortion) and and elevate their financial situation (by pushing downward brown and black people)? (The GOP, that's who.) And don't you tell me it's a minority, when less than a week after the Supreme Court made the VRA null in practice, half a dozen states are rushing to eliminate any black representation. The whole GOP in those states (who already found a way to practice slavery through their carceral system - yes, there are black people picking cotton under the guard of armed white people on horses right now, today) is unanimous in erasing any power from black people. It is their first and foremost priority right now, despite everything else going on.

Zigurd 4mo ago
We need to finish Reconstruction. That sounds idealistic, even pie in the sky unrealistic. But we could certainly measure progress in that direction: US incarceration rates are insanely high, and the prison industrial complex is modern slavery. We would know victory when we put fewer people in prison than China, for example. That's not the only symptom, or the only measure of progress. But it would be a good start.
JumpCrisscross 4mo ago
> Confederates' common folks tried to burn the USA to the ground to save their inalienable right to own slaves Something I learned at The Old Slave Mart Museum in Charleston [1] is that Southern slaveowners were almost all terifically leveraged. Slaves were purchased predominantly with borrowed money (from, I might add, the North). And slaves were expensive, making up a significant if not dominating fraction of estates' assets. For Southern elites, therefore, abolition was an existential question. It meant bankruptcy and poverty, with insult added to injury in their creditors being Northerners. To my knowledge (and I'm no expert in this) the question of abolition paired with debt forgiveness was never seriously discussed by the Union. So yes, Confederate racism absolutely condemns its common folk. But even a moderately well-read Southern commoner would understand that abolition meant financial crisis, taking out their communities' largest tax payers, donors, consumers and employers in one swoop. I didn't walk away from the Museum sympathetic to slavery. But I did become more sympathetic to the South; in particular, to their bewildering decisions to continue prosecuting a war they were so very obviously, from a history textbook's perspective, losing. (To be clear, slavery is wrong. The South seceding was stupid. Not suing for peace after Gettysburg and Vicksburg stupider still.) [1] https://theoldslavemartmuseum.org https://theoldslavemartmuseum.org

Ar-Curunir 4mo ago

The professors, graduate students, and staff (not admins) are all working class. They are not some kind of elite in society. The median professor makes less than, say, an electrician. I am a professor in a good school, and I could probably triple my pay by going to industry. This propaganda needs to stop.

mnbpdx 4mo ago
Yeah, I agree: "academic/intellectual/educated person" != "owner class" I feel like that's the big misunderstanding between working class libs & working class conservatives. I'm (working class liberal who went to college) not the one oppressing you (working class conservative). We make basically the same money and hold the same power, lol. Clever of the (actual) conservative elites (1%, billionaires) to shift the blame to the intellectual class, when we don't own shit. We just piss you (working class conservatives) off at Thanksgiving with "new ideas" so we're an easy target.