5 ms·

Personally, myself I have been greatly impacted by this measures. Several services of mine were unavailable because LaLiga said so. No notification, no justific

Personally, myself I have been greatly impacted by this measures. Several services of mine were unavailable because LaLiga said so. No notification, no justification, they block and that's all. It has been a shame since the beginning.

thaumasiotes 5mo ago
What would it look like if you sued La Liga for using their lawful blocking power in a way that injured you?
- brendoelfrendo 5mo ago
  A very expensive lawsuit that, even if successful, will result in a difficult to enforce judgment?
  - thaumasiotes 5mo ago
    What's difficult about enforcing a judgment against La Liga? They're as public as it's possible to be.
    - brookst 5mo ago
      Might they appeal?
    - ornornor 5mo ago
      They have deep pockets for dragging this on much longer than you can afford it.
      - ndsipa_pomu 5mo ago
        I doubt that will work outside of the U.S.A.
        ornornor 5mo ago
        I think it’s a universal tactic. Maybe it’s even more extreme in the US (what isn’t), but you can drag court proceedings on pretty much anywhere there are courts and legal costs.
- bobthepanda 5mo ago
  I don’t know that this would work that well given Spain is civil law, not common law
  - nhatcher 5mo ago
    (Disclaimer: I don't know the first word about law) But I have been thinking about this quite a lot recently (mostly because I get angry at the power states sometimes have over individuals). Would the distinction really matter in this case?. I would think that in a "civil law" contry things could be even worse for the aggressor
    - brendoelfrendo 5mo ago
      It depends on the law in question. Civil law typically requires that the plaintiff's cause of action and desired remedy be defined in the relevant code or statute. This doesn't mean the average person is powerless; every civil code I know of will let you file a lawsuit for breach of contract, for example. I have no knowledge at all of Spanish law, though, so I have no idea who has grounds to sue whom and under what code. If a similar situation happened the US, you'd probably file a lawsuit against Cloudflare, the ISPs, and the relevant sports league and sort it out in court.
      - t0mas88 5mo ago
        You would do the same in a civil law country, sue the sports league and ISP. State that an "unlawful act" happened (blocking your service) and claim damages due to loss of traffic and the extra work it caused you.
        dcrazy 5mo ago
        But is it actually an unlawful act? A judge decreed that La Liga can demand the blockage of certain IPs. La Liga demanded the blockage of certain IPs. Does the fact that it had an unintended consequence on others somehow make it illegal?
- PeterStuer 5mo ago
  The legal system in many countries is very, very different from that is the US (or UK).
embedding-shape 5mo ago
> No notification What ISP? I'm using Vodafone and if I accept the insecure connection (because of mismatched certificate), I get served the notification. You don't get that?
- tomnipotent 5mo ago
  Presumes you're using the ISP's DNS and not custom servers or DoH.
  - embedding-shape 5mo ago
    Bit hard to get notified by the ISP if you effectively try to side-step the way they notify you, don't you think? Also bit weird to blame them for that. If I recall correctly, if you try to access the IP directly you get the same notification. No football game on right now though so cannot check. Edit: In fact, I'm not sure they do DNS filtering at all actually, it may be just based on IP, can't remember off-hand, considering the collateral damage, I'd say IP blocks mainly.
    - deleted 5mo ago
      [deleted]
    - mzajc 5mo ago
      ISPs have your contact information, and they can also put up notices on their own website. Hijacking somebody else's website with forged replies isn't "the way they notify you," it's a man-in-the-middle attack, and users shouldn't be trained or encouraged to accept it.
      - embedding-shape 5mo ago
        > ISPs have your contact information, and they can also put up notices on their own website. So whenever you see "Connection Refused" your instinct is to go to your ISPs website? I also don't think it's "hijacking someone's website", then it'd be global, instead it is a man-in-the-middle attack, serving different traffic than the user intended.

thaumasiotes 5mo ago

What would it look like if you sued La Liga for using their lawful blocking power in a way that injured you?

brendoelfrendo 5mo ago
A very expensive lawsuit that, even if successful, will result in a difficult to enforce judgment?
- thaumasiotes 5mo ago
  What's difficult about enforcing a judgment against La Liga? They're as public as it's possible to be.
  - brookst 5mo ago
    Might they appeal?
  - ornornor 5mo ago
    They have deep pockets for dragging this on much longer than you can afford it.
    - ndsipa_pomu 5mo ago
      I doubt that will work outside of the U.S.A.
      - ornornor 5mo ago
        I think it’s a universal tactic. Maybe it’s even more extreme in the US (what isn’t), but you can drag court proceedings on pretty much anywhere there are courts and legal costs.
bobthepanda 5mo ago
I don’t know that this would work that well given Spain is civil law, not common law
- nhatcher 5mo ago
  (Disclaimer: I don't know the first word about law) But I have been thinking about this quite a lot recently (mostly because I get angry at the power states sometimes have over individuals). Would the distinction really matter in this case?. I would think that in a "civil law" contry things could be even worse for the aggressor
  - brendoelfrendo 5mo ago
    It depends on the law in question. Civil law typically requires that the plaintiff's cause of action and desired remedy be defined in the relevant code or statute. This doesn't mean the average person is powerless; every civil code I know of will let you file a lawsuit for breach of contract, for example. I have no knowledge at all of Spanish law, though, so I have no idea who has grounds to sue whom and under what code. If a similar situation happened the US, you'd probably file a lawsuit against Cloudflare, the ISPs, and the relevant sports league and sort it out in court.
    - t0mas88 5mo ago
      You would do the same in a civil law country, sue the sports league and ISP. State that an "unlawful act" happened (blocking your service) and claim damages due to loss of traffic and the extra work it caused you.
      - dcrazy 5mo ago
        But is it actually an unlawful act? A judge decreed that La Liga can demand the blockage of certain IPs. La Liga demanded the blockage of certain IPs. Does the fact that it had an unintended consequence on others somehow make it illegal?
PeterStuer 5mo ago
The legal system in many countries is very, very different from that is the US (or UK).

embedding-shape 5mo ago

> No notification What ISP? I'm using Vodafone and if I accept the insecure connection (because of mismatched certificate), I get served the notification. You don't get that?

tomnipotent 5mo ago
Presumes you're using the ISP's DNS and not custom servers or DoH.
- embedding-shape 5mo ago
  Bit hard to get notified by the ISP if you effectively try to side-step the way they notify you, don't you think? Also bit weird to blame them for that. If I recall correctly, if you try to access the IP directly you get the same notification. No football game on right now though so cannot check. Edit: In fact, I'm not sure they do DNS filtering at all actually, it may be just based on IP, can't remember off-hand, considering the collateral damage, I'd say IP blocks mainly.
  - deleted 5mo ago
    [deleted]
  - mzajc 5mo ago
    ISPs have your contact information, and they can also put up notices on their own website. Hijacking somebody else's website with forged replies isn't "the way they notify you," it's a man-in-the-middle attack, and users shouldn't be trained or encouraged to accept it.
    - embedding-shape 5mo ago
      > ISPs have your contact information, and they can also put up notices on their own website. So whenever you see "Connection Refused" your instinct is to go to your ISPs website? I also don't think it's "hijacking someone's website", then it'd be global, instead it is a man-in-the-middle attack, serving different traffic than the user intended.