5 ms·

I don’t have the right configuration of equipment to use an app like this, but does anyone know why this needs to be a service-driven app? What piece of functio

by moffers 5mo ago

I don’t have the right configuration of equipment to use an app like this, but does anyone know why this needs to be a service-driven app? What piece of functionality requires a server to track your health?

jumpconc 5mo ago
The spying part requires a server. If you use GrapheneOS, you can enable or disable internet access for each app.
- embedding-shape 5mo ago
  > If you use GrapheneOS, you can enable or disable internet access for each app. Not sure what information you're expecting the app in question to surface if you disable internet access for it.
  - bonoboTP 5mo ago
    Locally stored info
  - antiframe 5mo ago
    An error? It's useful to know if/when an app wants to access the Internet. So if an app says it's local only you can disable network permissions. Trust but verify.
  - ludicrousdispla 5mo ago
    geo-positioning, maps, way-finding, directions, time of day, calendar, lunar cycle, calculator, notes, language translation, calculator, games, contacts, etc.
- noir_lord 5mo ago
  Motorola needs to hurry up and release their GrapheneOS devices, I need a new phone soon(TM) (next year or two) and I refuse to give google money to buy hardware to avoid Google.
  - y0eswddl 5mo ago
    Buy a used Pixel - it's better for the environment, anyway
    - fwipsy 5mo ago
      +1, I'm pretty happy with my used Pixel, but I feel that buying used is still supporting the manufacturer somewhat. People are more likely to buy another if they got a good price for their old one. And you're driving up used prices which may contribute to others buying new. I don't have a rigorous understanding of this though, would be interesting to see an economist's take.
- 1vuio0pswjnm7 5mo ago
  "If you use GrapheneOS, you can enable or disable internet access for each app." This can also be done on Android with certain apps such as Netguard and PCAPDroid (Using either a blacklist or whitelist approach) Disabling internet access is not necessarily a hard requirement to stop this type of spying Controlling what DNS data apps can access, if any, will usually suffice
thephyber 5mo ago
Better revenue model? Pushing some data to the server, serving ads to the app, reselling demographic data, etc all allow for more revenue than just the price of installation. There are almost certainly other apps in the space that don’t need a server, don’t phone home to Meta, and are lower priced, but they probably aren’t as good at marketing. From my experience in the startup world, I would wager that this developer probably wanted to track marketing campaign installs (Meta library is required to close the loop on Facebook/Instagram ad conversions after app install) or wanted a feature from some Meta library they integrated but didn’t realize or care about the consequences.
toast0 5mo ago
I'm not familiar with this app, but a service lets you do potentially nice things like cross device sync and sharing observations with trusted others.
- 3form 5mo ago
  I'm assuming the question should be further refined to "why does the service need to know the data". The things that you mention could be done with the service only having the encrypted blob.
  - array_key_first 5mo ago
    Encryption is more work than not-encryption, and most software is optimally lazy and barely functional. The main goal of the developers is to make the app almost work most of the time, and not crash too much or be so inconvenient that users delete it. Anything past that is extra, and businesses don't pay for extra.
ozlikethewizard 5mo ago
I have actually been playing around with scoping a privacy first version of these tracking apps that store all the data locally with optional sync. It's technically possible, but there's very little in the way of revenue generation there. So it's same issue as always, capitalism corrupts.
embedding-shape 5mo ago
My partner uses the app this article is about (Flo) and I have an account there too in order for her to share the data with me. I guess you could do it with some sort of P2P sync with cryptography involved locally instead, and/or E2E for stuff sent via the servers. Kind of surprised me they didn't have E2E already, but I guess I shouldn't be surprised anymore.
- JohnFen 5mo ago
  Or, you know, she could just track it without any app at all and share it with you in person.
  - embedding-shape 5mo ago
    [flagged]
  - coldpie 5mo ago
    Computers are useful tools that do useful things for people. It is reasonable for people to want to use them to do things they find useful. They don't have to function like spy devices, but we've chosen to highly reward the people who have turned them into spy devices, so they do. We could choose to do something else with them instead. For example we could pass & enforce privacy regulations so they cannot function as spy devices. Or we could wheel out the guillotines so there are appropriate consequences for the creeps and sociopaths who choose to build and work at places like Facebook. Whichever, I'm flexible.
    - DANmode 5mo ago
      > we've chosen to highly reward No, investors have. This is an important point. Society did not choose freemium, it did not choose high fructose corn syrup. It was content with the products straight, the way they were.
  - dwedge 5mo ago
    You could also be snarky without internet access
alistairSH 5mo ago
Not being a women, I've always wondered what insight the app gives regardless of data traveling to a server... does it do anything you can't do with a simple notebook app (like Apple's default Notes)? If you have an irregular period, does this app help "guess" when it's going to start/end? If you have a regular period, why do you need an app at all?
- natbennett 5mo ago
  Like most data entry software there’s nothing that unstructured notes (or paper) can’t handle. The main useful feature of the apps (or Apple Health’s tracker which is entirely adequate) is that it sends reminders on the estimated period start date, and then a few days afterwards if you haven’t recorded the end date. Even “regular” periods often aren’t perfectly regular, or can become irregular when they were regular. (Which is often very important health information.) It also automatically calculates median period length and typical variation/range. All unnecessary for some people but very useful for others.
  - eszed 5mo ago
    > median period length and typical variation/range. This was what my partner found useful to share with her doctor while trying to figure out a medical issue. Of course it could have been done typing dates and notes into excel, and manually creating charts, but the chance that she (or most people) would consistently follow that workflow (pun not intended, but I like it) is nil.
- drakonka 5mo ago
  I wonder if you would ask the same thing about any number of apps - like fitness trackers, mood trackers, supplement trackers, online diary apps, task trackers, etc? You don't even need a notes app - you could just carry a notebook around or email notes to yourself. As for why people may want to track menstrual cycles specifically, it is because bodies can be greatly influenced by what phase of the menstrual cycle we are in. From regular physical and mood changes to disorders like PMDD. The different parts of the cycle can also impact ideal exercise and even food choices for some. There are women and couples who gain insights (and often useful predictions) into how their moods coincide with menstrual phases, and that is much easier to track in a dedicated app designed to do so (which can also flag cycle irregularities, bleeding variation, or other changes), just as with other purpose-built applications. All of that is before we even get to the whole fertility tracking thing. One such app is a certified birth control method in my country. Tracking periods in a notes app is not.
newtwentysix 5mo ago
Like notes apps, reminder apps, etc, data from almost everything we do on phone is saved in cloud. That data is their business fundamental. Same with this app also.
CGamesPlay 5mo ago
It doesn’t? You could easily install the tracker on the client app, no need to do it server side. In fact I bet the app in question (Flo) was doing the upload to Meta client-side.
- embedding-shape 5mo ago
  > It doesn’t? I'm guessing P2P technology isn't really sufficiently easy for developers yet, so when you have two users using an app that are supposed to share something between the two, most of us default to building server-side services. That + the "dynamic" list of articles and "help" Flo offer I'm guessing is the main reason for them having servers in the first place.
blitzar 5mo ago
The blockchain should have solved this.
- xethos 5mo ago
  The app in question couldn't be bothered to do E2EE, and your solution is a public, immutable database?
skrlet13 5mo ago
From an user perspective, easier data sync and access between devices
TZubiri 5mo ago
Same as any other application, if you lose or change your phone you don't lose data.
DANmode 5mo ago
What’s a server?
raxxorraxor 5mo ago
If we didn't have these shitty mobile OS ecosystems, we would have sensible apps to do that. But people then throw something up about "modern" security in operation systems. As if this data exfiltration isn't more or less the worst case of a security problem.
Marjoriedoucet 5mo ago
[flagged]

by moffers 5mo ago

jumpconc 5mo ago

The spying part requires a server. If you use GrapheneOS, you can enable or disable internet access for each app.

embedding-shape 5mo ago
> If you use GrapheneOS, you can enable or disable internet access for each app. Not sure what information you're expecting the app in question to surface if you disable internet access for it.
- bonoboTP 5mo ago
  Locally stored info
- antiframe 5mo ago
  An error? It's useful to know if/when an app wants to access the Internet. So if an app says it's local only you can disable network permissions. Trust but verify.
- ludicrousdispla 5mo ago
  geo-positioning, maps, way-finding, directions, time of day, calendar, lunar cycle, calculator, notes, language translation, calculator, games, contacts, etc.
noir_lord 5mo ago
Motorola needs to hurry up and release their GrapheneOS devices, I need a new phone soon(TM) (next year or two) and I refuse to give google money to buy hardware to avoid Google.
- y0eswddl 5mo ago
  Buy a used Pixel - it's better for the environment, anyway
  - fwipsy 5mo ago
    +1, I'm pretty happy with my used Pixel, but I feel that buying used is still supporting the manufacturer somewhat. People are more likely to buy another if they got a good price for their old one. And you're driving up used prices which may contribute to others buying new. I don't have a rigorous understanding of this though, would be interesting to see an economist's take.
1vuio0pswjnm7 5mo ago
"If you use GrapheneOS, you can enable or disable internet access for each app." This can also be done on Android with certain apps such as Netguard and PCAPDroid (Using either a blacklist or whitelist approach) Disabling internet access is not necessarily a hard requirement to stop this type of spying Controlling what DNS data apps can access, if any, will usually suffice

thephyber 5mo ago

Better revenue model? Pushing some data to the server, serving ads to the app, reselling demographic data, etc all allow for more revenue than just the price of installation. There are almost certainly other apps in the space that don’t need a server, don’t phone home to Meta, and are lower priced, but they probably aren’t as good at marketing. From my experience in the startup world, I would wager that this developer probably wanted to track marketing campaign installs (Meta library is required to close the loop on Facebook/Instagram ad conversions after app install) or wanted a feature from some Meta library they integrated but didn’t realize or care about the consequences.

toast0 5mo ago

I'm not familiar with this app, but a service lets you do potentially nice things like cross device sync and sharing observations with trusted others.

3form 5mo ago
I'm assuming the question should be further refined to "why does the service need to know the data". The things that you mention could be done with the service only having the encrypted blob.
- array_key_first 5mo ago
  Encryption is more work than not-encryption, and most software is optimally lazy and barely functional. The main goal of the developers is to make the app almost work most of the time, and not crash too much or be so inconvenient that users delete it. Anything past that is extra, and businesses don't pay for extra.

ozlikethewizard 5mo ago

I have actually been playing around with scoping a privacy first version of these tracking apps that store all the data locally with optional sync. It's technically possible, but there's very little in the way of revenue generation there. So it's same issue as always, capitalism corrupts.

embedding-shape 5mo ago

My partner uses the app this article is about (Flo) and I have an account there too in order for her to share the data with me. I guess you could do it with some sort of P2P sync with cryptography involved locally instead, and/or E2E for stuff sent via the servers. Kind of surprised me they didn't have E2E already, but I guess I shouldn't be surprised anymore.

JohnFen 5mo ago
Or, you know, she could just track it without any app at all and share it with you in person.
- embedding-shape 5mo ago
  [flagged]
- coldpie 5mo ago
  Computers are useful tools that do useful things for people. It is reasonable for people to want to use them to do things they find useful. They don't have to function like spy devices, but we've chosen to highly reward the people who have turned them into spy devices, so they do. We could choose to do something else with them instead. For example we could pass & enforce privacy regulations so they cannot function as spy devices. Or we could wheel out the guillotines so there are appropriate consequences for the creeps and sociopaths who choose to build and work at places like Facebook. Whichever, I'm flexible.
  - DANmode 5mo ago
    > we've chosen to highly reward No, investors have. This is an important point. Society did not choose freemium, it did not choose high fructose corn syrup. It was content with the products straight, the way they were.
- dwedge 5mo ago
  You could also be snarky without internet access

alistairSH 5mo ago

Not being a women, I've always wondered what insight the app gives regardless of data traveling to a server... does it do anything you can't do with a simple notebook app (like Apple's default Notes)? If you have an irregular period, does this app help "guess" when it's going to start/end? If you have a regular period, why do you need an app at all?

natbennett 5mo ago
Like most data entry software there’s nothing that unstructured notes (or paper) can’t handle. The main useful feature of the apps (or Apple Health’s tracker which is entirely adequate) is that it sends reminders on the estimated period start date, and then a few days afterwards if you haven’t recorded the end date. Even “regular” periods often aren’t perfectly regular, or can become irregular when they were regular. (Which is often very important health information.) It also automatically calculates median period length and typical variation/range. All unnecessary for some people but very useful for others.
- eszed 5mo ago
  > median period length and typical variation/range. This was what my partner found useful to share with her doctor while trying to figure out a medical issue. Of course it could have been done typing dates and notes into excel, and manually creating charts, but the chance that she (or most people) would consistently follow that workflow (pun not intended, but I like it) is nil.
drakonka 5mo ago
I wonder if you would ask the same thing about any number of apps - like fitness trackers, mood trackers, supplement trackers, online diary apps, task trackers, etc? You don't even need a notes app - you could just carry a notebook around or email notes to yourself. As for why people may want to track menstrual cycles specifically, it is because bodies can be greatly influenced by what phase of the menstrual cycle we are in. From regular physical and mood changes to disorders like PMDD. The different parts of the cycle can also impact ideal exercise and even food choices for some. There are women and couples who gain insights (and often useful predictions) into how their moods coincide with menstrual phases, and that is much easier to track in a dedicated app designed to do so (which can also flag cycle irregularities, bleeding variation, or other changes), just as with other purpose-built applications. All of that is before we even get to the whole fertility tracking thing. One such app is a certified birth control method in my country. Tracking periods in a notes app is not.

newtwentysix 5mo ago

Like notes apps, reminder apps, etc, data from almost everything we do on phone is saved in cloud. That data is their business fundamental. Same with this app also.

CGamesPlay 5mo ago

It doesn’t? You could easily install the tracker on the client app, no need to do it server side. In fact I bet the app in question (Flo) was doing the upload to Meta client-side.

embedding-shape 5mo ago
> It doesn’t? I'm guessing P2P technology isn't really sufficiently easy for developers yet, so when you have two users using an app that are supposed to share something between the two, most of us default to building server-side services. That + the "dynamic" list of articles and "help" Flo offer I'm guessing is the main reason for them having servers in the first place.

blitzar 5mo ago

The blockchain should have solved this.

xethos 5mo ago
The app in question couldn't be bothered to do E2EE, and your solution is a public, immutable database?

skrlet13 5mo ago

From an user perspective, easier data sync and access between devices

TZubiri 5mo ago

Same as any other application, if you lose or change your phone you don't lose data.

DANmode 5mo ago

What’s a server?

raxxorraxor 5mo ago

If we didn't have these shitty mobile OS ecosystems, we would have sensible apps to do that. But people then throw something up about "modern" security in operation systems. As if this data exfiltration isn't more or less the worst case of a security problem.

Marjoriedoucet 5mo ago

[flagged]