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what makes you think that china ever gave up its communist goals? I personally see that everything they do aims towards that goal. From the one child policy, th

by pheggs 5mo ago

what makes you think that china ever gave up its communist goals? I personally see that everything they do aims towards that goal. From the one child policy, the huge amounts of empty apartments they build, the stuff they produce for almost free, the fishing.. open sourcing the models perfectly fits that culture too, it's the means of production

otterley 5mo ago
The one-child policy died a long time ago. Also, the accumulation of wealth by connected politicians and businesspeople flies in the face of what communism is supposed to stand for. There is a reason real estate values in popular cities has skyrocketed, and it’s not due to the locals getting wealthier. It’s where Chinese and other oligarchs put their ill-gotten wealth (well, besides Bitcoin).
- pheggs 5mo ago
  > The one-child policy died a long time ago. true, but as far as I understand it did because birth rates got too low. so they replaced it with a two-child policy and later with a three-child policy > Also, the accumulation of wealth by connected politicians and businesspeople flies in the face of what communism is supposed to stand for. Yeah, I am sure there's a lot of cases for that. But as far as I know the amount of billionaires has started declining in China, and I don't see how that means that they as a country moved away from the goal, it just means there's issues > There is a reason real estate values in popular cities has skyrocketed, and it’s not due to the locals getting wealthier. I don't know about that, you could be right. A google search for real estate prices in china reveal a lot of news articles how they are going down though. > It’s where Chinese and other oligarchs put their ill-gotten wealth (well, besides Bitcoin). Wouldn't be surprised if rich people in china invest in real estate. They don't have free capital flow, so its not easy to invest abroad and it becomes an obvious choice. Bitcoin is banned in China for that reason too But again, as far as I know that does not mean the country moved their goals of trying to reach communism one day
  - otterley 5mo ago
    > I don't see how that means that they as a country moved away from the goal, it just means there's issues They're further from Communism than they've ever been since the PRC was founded. The gap between rich and poor is growing there, not shrinking. > A google search for real estate prices in china reveal a lot of news articles how they are going down though. They're investing outside China (Vancouver, Toronto, NYC, London, Sydney, Melbourne, etc.) because their assets are safer there (these countries all have strong property protection laws). Like Bitcoin, freedom of capital flows may be restricted, but the wealthy seem to be evading these restrictions with impunity.
    - pheggs 5mo ago
      > They're further from Communism than they've ever been since the PRC was founded. The gap between rich and poor is growing there, not shrinking. I suppose it depends on what time frame you look at, it's shrinking since 2010, but inequality rose more than that in the 80s: https://www.theglobaleconomy.com/China/gini_inequality_index/ https://www.theglobaleconomy.com/China/gini_inequality_index... However, that's not my point - I did not mean to say that they are going to be successful but rather that it still appears to be a long term goal for them. > Like Bitcoin, freedom of capital flows may be restricted, but the wealthy seem to be evading these restrictions with impunity. I don't know about that, without any source of data I guess I just have to take your word for it. I would not be surprised if you were right in this case though.
- bwv848 5mo ago
  One-child policy did not die, it just morphed into Three-child policy, still a form of family planning, and still would probably fine people for having more than three kids.
Saline9515 5mo ago
China is a ruthless capitalist country managed by an authoritarian regime. Planning and lack of respect for the individual or the rule of law are not communist per se.
- nozzlegear 5mo ago
  > Planning and lack of respect for the individual or the rule of law are not communist per se. They just happen to be a feature of every single country that's attempted communism to date. Total coincidence.
  - Saline9515 5mo ago
    And? Fascism does it, too. Authoritarian rule, such as monarchy, does it too.

by pheggs 5mo ago

otterley 5mo ago

The one-child policy died a long time ago. Also, the accumulation of wealth by connected politicians and businesspeople flies in the face of what communism is supposed to stand for. There is a reason real estate values in popular cities has skyrocketed, and it’s not due to the locals getting wealthier. It’s where Chinese and other oligarchs put their ill-gotten wealth (well, besides Bitcoin).

pheggs 5mo ago
> The one-child policy died a long time ago. true, but as far as I understand it did because birth rates got too low. so they replaced it with a two-child policy and later with a three-child policy > Also, the accumulation of wealth by connected politicians and businesspeople flies in the face of what communism is supposed to stand for. Yeah, I am sure there's a lot of cases for that. But as far as I know the amount of billionaires has started declining in China, and I don't see how that means that they as a country moved away from the goal, it just means there's issues > There is a reason real estate values in popular cities has skyrocketed, and it’s not due to the locals getting wealthier. I don't know about that, you could be right. A google search for real estate prices in china reveal a lot of news articles how they are going down though. > It’s where Chinese and other oligarchs put their ill-gotten wealth (well, besides Bitcoin). Wouldn't be surprised if rich people in china invest in real estate. They don't have free capital flow, so its not easy to invest abroad and it becomes an obvious choice. Bitcoin is banned in China for that reason too But again, as far as I know that does not mean the country moved their goals of trying to reach communism one day
- otterley 5mo ago
  > I don't see how that means that they as a country moved away from the goal, it just means there's issues They're further from Communism than they've ever been since the PRC was founded. The gap between rich and poor is growing there, not shrinking. > A google search for real estate prices in china reveal a lot of news articles how they are going down though. They're investing outside China (Vancouver, Toronto, NYC, London, Sydney, Melbourne, etc.) because their assets are safer there (these countries all have strong property protection laws). Like Bitcoin, freedom of capital flows may be restricted, but the wealthy seem to be evading these restrictions with impunity.
  - pheggs 5mo ago
    > They're further from Communism than they've ever been since the PRC was founded. The gap between rich and poor is growing there, not shrinking. I suppose it depends on what time frame you look at, it's shrinking since 2010, but inequality rose more than that in the 80s: https://www.theglobaleconomy.com/China/gini_inequality_index/ https://www.theglobaleconomy.com/China/gini_inequality_index... However, that's not my point - I did not mean to say that they are going to be successful but rather that it still appears to be a long term goal for them. > Like Bitcoin, freedom of capital flows may be restricted, but the wealthy seem to be evading these restrictions with impunity. I don't know about that, without any source of data I guess I just have to take your word for it. I would not be surprised if you were right in this case though.
bwv848 5mo ago
One-child policy did not die, it just morphed into Three-child policy, still a form of family planning, and still would probably fine people for having more than three kids.

Saline9515 5mo ago

China is a ruthless capitalist country managed by an authoritarian regime. Planning and lack of respect for the individual or the rule of law are not communist per se.

nozzlegear 5mo ago
> Planning and lack of respect for the individual or the rule of law are not communist per se. They just happen to be a feature of every single country that's attempted communism to date. Total coincidence.
- Saline9515 5mo ago
  And? Fascism does it, too. Authoritarian rule, such as monarchy, does it too.