8 ms·

it's really unfortunate that telegram doesn't do e2ee, bc it's hands down the best messenger otherwise :(

by taminka 5mo ago

tazjin 5mo ago
It does, but only for chats between two specific devices. Multi-device support is one of its best features that you lose with E2E. Key distribution is just too hard. I think we won't get a messenger for non-tech people that works well with multi-device and E2E basically ever.
- ymolodtsov 5mo ago
  It's called iMessage. It's possible, Telegram just doesn't care. All their differentiating features (large groups, channels, device sync) is directly enabled by the lack of encryption.
  - taminka 5mo ago
    they do have encryption, just not e2ee, and in fairness to them, it doesn't make sense to have e2ee on a channel or a group with 100k ppl in it, also device sync is possible with e2ee, it's just a slower
  - tcfhgj 5mo ago
    you can have large groups and device sync WITH e2ee, see Matrix.
    - ymolodtsov 5mo ago
      Any Matrix client I tried lagged even without chats though.
- lxgr 5mo ago
  What are you talking about? WhatsApp, iMessage, and Signal all have multi-device support and are E2E encrypted, just to name a few very popular options.
- taminka 5mo ago
  whatsapp, facebook messenger, imessage all support multi-device and it's pretty convenient, in fairness to telegram they launched a bit before double ratched was invented, but still, they've had over a decade to switch to it...
  - stavros 5mo ago
    WhatsApp doesn't support multi-device. You can't have it installed on two phones at once.
    - taminka 5mo ago
      you can (https://faq.whatsapp.com/1046791737425017/?cms_platform=android https://faq.whatsapp.com/1046791737425017/?cms_platform=andr...) they even have it on fb messenger and instagram (though they recently removed e2ee completely from instagram lol)
      - stavros 5mo ago
        That's still one device. If you turn the primary phone off, the secondary device stops working. WhatsApp just proxies everything through the primary device, it's like WhatsApp Web.
        taminka 5mo ago
        oh, i see, is it the same for facebook messenger and instagram, imessage, etc?
        stavros 5mo ago
        I don't know, I don't use those. It is for Signal, I don't think so for Instagram, since I don't think that encrypts end to end.
        lxgr 5mo ago
        It's not true for Signal either. Why don't you try it for yourself instead of spreading outdated (at best) information? Signal supports native multi-device capabilities without relaying everything through the "primary" device.
- tcfhgj 5mo ago
  Matrix
rafaelmn 5mo ago
From what I understand you can have secure chats e2ee ? I like that I can login from multiple devices and continue the conversation. This was always annoying with whatsapp and signal. Worst case is mildly embarrassing stuff leaks.
- lxgr 5mo ago
  > From what I understand you can have secure chats e2ee ? Not with bots, though. > I like that I can login from multiple devices and continue the conversation This is also not possible with Telegram E2E, while it is with Signal and WhatsApp.

it's really unfortunate that telegram doesn't do e2ee, bc it's hands down the best messenger otherwise :(

by taminka 5mo ago

it's really unfortunate that telegram doesn't do e2ee, bc it's hands down the best messenger otherwise :(

It does, but only for chats between two specific devices. Multi-device support is one of its best features that you lose with E2E. Key distribution is just too hard. I think we won't get a messenger for non-tech people that works well with multi-device and E2E basically ever.

ymolodtsov 5mo ago
It's called iMessage. It's possible, Telegram just doesn't care. All their differentiating features (large groups, channels, device sync) is directly enabled by the lack of encryption.
- taminka 5mo ago
  they do have encryption, just not e2ee, and in fairness to them, it doesn't make sense to have e2ee on a channel or a group with 100k ppl in it, also device sync is possible with e2ee, it's just a slower
- tcfhgj 5mo ago
  you can have large groups and device sync WITH e2ee, see Matrix.
  - ymolodtsov 5mo ago
    Any Matrix client I tried lagged even without chats though.
lxgr 5mo ago
What are you talking about? WhatsApp, iMessage, and Signal all have multi-device support and are E2E encrypted, just to name a few very popular options.
taminka 5mo ago
whatsapp, facebook messenger, imessage all support multi-device and it's pretty convenient, in fairness to telegram they launched a bit before double ratched was invented, but still, they've had over a decade to switch to it...
- stavros 5mo ago
  WhatsApp doesn't support multi-device. You can't have it installed on two phones at once.
  - taminka 5mo ago
    you can (https://faq.whatsapp.com/1046791737425017/?cms_platform=android https://faq.whatsapp.com/1046791737425017/?cms_platform=andr...) they even have it on fb messenger and instagram (though they recently removed e2ee completely from instagram lol)
    - stavros 5mo ago
      That's still one device. If you turn the primary phone off, the secondary device stops working. WhatsApp just proxies everything through the primary device, it's like WhatsApp Web.
      - taminka 5mo ago
        oh, i see, is it the same for facebook messenger and instagram, imessage, etc?
        stavros 5mo ago
        I don't know, I don't use those. It is for Signal, I don't think so for Instagram, since I don't think that encrypts end to end.
        lxgr 5mo ago
        It's not true for Signal either. Why don't you try it for yourself instead of spreading outdated (at best) information? Signal supports native multi-device capabilities without relaying everything through the "primary" device.
tcfhgj 5mo ago
Matrix

rafaelmn 5mo ago

From what I understand you can have secure chats e2ee ? I like that I can login from multiple devices and continue the conversation. This was always annoying with whatsapp and signal. Worst case is mildly embarrassing stuff leaks.

lxgr 5mo ago
> From what I understand you can have secure chats e2ee ? Not with bots, though. > I like that I can login from multiple devices and continue the conversation This is also not possible with Telegram E2E, while it is with Signal and WhatsApp.