8 ms·

The demonym for France is "French," so it's not wrong (even if it doesn't sound right.)

traceroute66 5mo ago
No. "French" is adjective or a collective noun, but don't use it as a countable noun. Trying to say "as a French" makes about as much sense as thinking "as a American" is correct. As has already been said ... "a French (wo)man","a French person","a French citizen" is the correct way to go. The reason you can say "an American" is because America starts with a vowel. Same reason why you would not say "a British" but you could say "a Brit".
- mistrial9 5mo ago
  a French; an American; a Brit, or a British sounds casual but correct to me
  - traceroute66 5mo ago
    > sounds casual but correct to me I don't care if it "sounds ok to me". If you're going to make statements like that to go against what I've written then at least come up with some viable citations to grammar literature. Honestly, in all my years on this earth I have never, ever heard anybody in any English speaking country I've spent time in say "a French" "a American" "a British". And that amounts to a lot of time surrounded by people speaking VERY "casual" English. P.S. I said "an American" was ok if you re-read.. an NOT a
    - MarceColl 5mo ago
      The reason you can say "an American" has nothing to do with a vowel or not, there are just some demonyms that for some reason can be used like this, and some that can't. For example: * German is countable: https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/definition/english/german_2 https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/definition/englis... * French is uncountable: https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/definition/english/french_2 https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/definition/englis... * American is countable: https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/definition/english/american_1?q=American https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/definition/englis... * Spanish is uncountable: https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/definition/english/spanish_2 https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/definition/englis... But your explanation about why it is correct is bullshit, has nothing to do with "an" vs "a", the English language is just inconsistent as fuck and some demonyms can be used like this and some can't.
- woodruffw 5mo ago
  Demonyms don’t use the same rules as countable nouns. Both “French” and “British” are acceptable demonyms, they’re just not particularly idiomatic in American English (which likes to overcorrect with “person” like you’ve noted). (There’s no particularly consistency with this, it’s just what sounds “good” to American ears. We’re perfectly fine with “as a German” or “as a Lithuanian.”)
  - traceroute66 5mo ago
    > Both “French” and “British” are acceptable demonyms No they are not. The Oxford English Dictionary, for example makes it quite clear re. 'French': "With plural agreement, and frequently with 'the' French people regarded collectively ..." I draw your attention to the first three words ... "with plural agreement". It is explicitly telling you that "French" is a collective plural noun and hence cannot be used as a singular countable noun.
    - woodruffw 5mo ago
      I think we’re past OED being a normative arbiter of what does or doesn’t pass for acceptable English usage.
      - troad 5mo ago
        Precisely so: the OED's role is descriptive, in that it is to describe English as it is used, not how it ought to be used. It provides evidence of a grammatical rule - it is not the rule itself. You can speak however you like, there is no language police, but the fact is the average English speaker will perceive certain constructs to be grammatically incorrect. "He eat", "I driving", "a French" etc.
estimator7292 5mo ago
Technically yes the demonym is "French", but "I'm a French" just doesn't work in English. The word 'French' is almost exclusively used in English as an adjective or the name of the language. It is never used as a noun for anything else. So in context, it reads as an adjective without a paired noun. In English, you have to disambiguate be adding a noun: French person, French citizen, or Frenchman if you're old and inconsiderate. Similarly, we don't call people "a Chinese". That construction is considered derogatory, if not outright racist. Demonyms typically cannot be used as nouns alone without a suffix. "A Brazilian" or "a Spaniard" are acceptable. As usual for English, the rules are vague and inconsistent.
- traceroute66 5mo ago
  > "A Brazilian" or "a Spaniard" are acceptable. Well, context is important on the Brazilian front. ;) "I had a brazilian at my house" could have other connotations.
  - Ylpertnodi 5mo ago
    How many did you have at your house?
- Ylpertnodi 5mo ago
  > or Frenchman if you're old and inconsiderate. Or talking about a man that is French. Neither of which would be considered 'old', or 'inconsiderate".
  - gpm 5mo ago
    "Frenchman" (one word) is always... "old and inconsiderate" is a good description. "French man" (two words) is at times still appropriate.
    - troad 5mo ago
      No, Frenchman is fine. It's a neutral and common descriptor, and I've far more often heard it said by French people than about them. Similar to Spaniard. Not everything needs to be perennially problematised.
japanoise 5mo ago
It's not completely wrong, it will be understood, but it is ungrammatical and a clear marker that the speaker is not native, similar to getting adjectives in the 'wrong' order ('a big tasty sandwich' sounds more natural to a native speaker than 'a tasty big sandwich', even though the latter makes sense and will be understood). Demonyms for historical neighbours of England have irregular forms when speaking of a particular person from there. Scotland has 'Scot' and 'Scotsman'; Wales has 'Welshman'; Spain has 'Spaniard'. Other countries indeed need a second word, such as 'person' or 'citizen' ('a Chinese' sounds offensive to me; I would say 'a Chinese person' in all cases). The only country I can think of where using a bare demonym is grammatical when speaking of a single person from there is Germany with 'a German' - probably because it has the suffix -man. Edit: A sibling comment pointed out that 'an American' is grammatical, and thinking about it, I think the suffix -an is what makes bare demonyms grammatical - you can say 'an Angolan', 'a Laotian', 'a Peruvian', 'a Moroccan', etc, but wouldn't say 'a Thai', 'a Swedish', 'a Sudanese', etc.
- embedding-shape 5mo ago
  > but it is ungrammatical and a clear marker that the speaker is not native You mean a native speaker might be ungrammatical when using their non-native language? That makes sense to me. > Spain has 'Spaniard'. Even so, you'll hear a ton of native Spanish people saying "As a Spanish person" or "As person from Spain" instead of simply "As a Spaniard", I'm not sure this is very surprising. If anything, that mistake makes it more likely they're a native than not, in the case of Spain, as the level of English outside of metropolitan areas is lacking at best, compared to other European countries.
  - japanoise 5mo ago
    I'm using the words 'grammatical' and 'ungrammatical' in a linguistic sense; human languages are subtle and fluid, and one doesn't have to be far along the sliding scale between 'doesn't speak a word' and 'well-educated native speaker' to be understood. We speak of 'broken' English when somebody is able to be understood but hasn't fully grasped the language yet; using demonyms incorrectly is a subtler flavor of the same thing. For example 'no come here' -> 'no entering' -> 'no entry'
troad 5mo ago
It is wrong, in the sense that native speakers do not say that, and it triggers what linguists call a "grammaticality judgment" in a native speaker. Same as "He eat apple" or "I am go to school". These may be comprehensible utterances, but they do not fit into a native speaker's internal grammar of valid English sentence structures. Yes, languages can change, but there is no evidence that native speakers have started saying "a French". The only context I've ever seen that in is "As a French...", which strongly implies a non-native speaker of English. The evidence suggests that it's a common language interference error from French, not some future development of English.

No. "French" is adjective or a collective noun, but don't use it as a countable noun. Trying to say "as a French" makes about as much sense as thinking "as a American" is correct. As has already been said ... "a French (wo)man","a French person","a French citizen" is the correct way to go. The reason you can say "an American" is because America starts with a vowel. Same reason why you would not say "a British" but you could say "a Brit".

mistrial9 5mo ago
a French; an American; a Brit, or a British sounds casual but correct to me
- traceroute66 5mo ago
  > sounds casual but correct to me I don't care if it "sounds ok to me". If you're going to make statements like that to go against what I've written then at least come up with some viable citations to grammar literature. Honestly, in all my years on this earth I have never, ever heard anybody in any English speaking country I've spent time in say "a French" "a American" "a British". And that amounts to a lot of time surrounded by people speaking VERY "casual" English. P.S. I said "an American" was ok if you re-read.. an NOT a
  - MarceColl 5mo ago
    The reason you can say "an American" has nothing to do with a vowel or not, there are just some demonyms that for some reason can be used like this, and some that can't. For example: * German is countable: https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/definition/english/german_2 https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/definition/englis... * French is uncountable: https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/definition/english/french_2 https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/definition/englis... * American is countable: https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/definition/english/american_1?q=American https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/definition/englis... * Spanish is uncountable: https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/definition/english/spanish_2 https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/definition/englis... But your explanation about why it is correct is bullshit, has nothing to do with "an" vs "a", the English language is just inconsistent as fuck and some demonyms can be used like this and some can't.
woodruffw 5mo ago
Demonyms don’t use the same rules as countable nouns. Both “French” and “British” are acceptable demonyms, they’re just not particularly idiomatic in American English (which likes to overcorrect with “person” like you’ve noted). (There’s no particularly consistency with this, it’s just what sounds “good” to American ears. We’re perfectly fine with “as a German” or “as a Lithuanian.”)
- traceroute66 5mo ago
  > Both “French” and “British” are acceptable demonyms No they are not. The Oxford English Dictionary, for example makes it quite clear re. 'French': "With plural agreement, and frequently with 'the' French people regarded collectively ..." I draw your attention to the first three words ... "with plural agreement". It is explicitly telling you that "French" is a collective plural noun and hence cannot be used as a singular countable noun.
  - woodruffw 5mo ago
    I think we’re past OED being a normative arbiter of what does or doesn’t pass for acceptable English usage.
    - troad 5mo ago
      Precisely so: the OED's role is descriptive, in that it is to describe English as it is used, not how it ought to be used. It provides evidence of a grammatical rule - it is not the rule itself. You can speak however you like, there is no language police, but the fact is the average English speaker will perceive certain constructs to be grammatically incorrect. "He eat", "I driving", "a French" etc.

estimator7292 5mo ago

Technically yes the demonym is "French", but "I'm a French" just doesn't work in English. The word 'French' is almost exclusively used in English as an adjective or the name of the language. It is never used as a noun for anything else. So in context, it reads as an adjective without a paired noun. In English, you have to disambiguate be adding a noun: French person, French citizen, or Frenchman if you're old and inconsiderate. Similarly, we don't call people "a Chinese". That construction is considered derogatory, if not outright racist. Demonyms typically cannot be used as nouns alone without a suffix. "A Brazilian" or "a Spaniard" are acceptable. As usual for English, the rules are vague and inconsistent.

traceroute66 5mo ago
> "A Brazilian" or "a Spaniard" are acceptable. Well, context is important on the Brazilian front. ;) "I had a brazilian at my house" could have other connotations.
- Ylpertnodi 5mo ago
  How many did you have at your house?
Ylpertnodi 5mo ago
> or Frenchman if you're old and inconsiderate. Or talking about a man that is French. Neither of which would be considered 'old', or 'inconsiderate".
- gpm 5mo ago
  "Frenchman" (one word) is always... "old and inconsiderate" is a good description. "French man" (two words) is at times still appropriate.
  - troad 5mo ago
    No, Frenchman is fine. It's a neutral and common descriptor, and I've far more often heard it said by French people than about them. Similar to Spaniard. Not everything needs to be perennially problematised.

japanoise 5mo ago

It's not completely wrong, it will be understood, but it is ungrammatical and a clear marker that the speaker is not native, similar to getting adjectives in the 'wrong' order ('a big tasty sandwich' sounds more natural to a native speaker than 'a tasty big sandwich', even though the latter makes sense and will be understood). Demonyms for historical neighbours of England have irregular forms when speaking of a particular person from there. Scotland has 'Scot' and 'Scotsman'; Wales has 'Welshman'; Spain has 'Spaniard'. Other countries indeed need a second word, such as 'person' or 'citizen' ('a Chinese' sounds offensive to me; I would say 'a Chinese person' in all cases). The only country I can think of where using a bare demonym is grammatical when speaking of a single person from there is Germany with 'a German' - probably because it has the suffix -man. Edit: A sibling comment pointed out that 'an American' is grammatical, and thinking about it, I think the suffix -an is what makes bare demonyms grammatical - you can say 'an Angolan', 'a Laotian', 'a Peruvian', 'a Moroccan', etc, but wouldn't say 'a Thai', 'a Swedish', 'a Sudanese', etc.

embedding-shape 5mo ago
> but it is ungrammatical and a clear marker that the speaker is not native You mean a native speaker might be ungrammatical when using their non-native language? That makes sense to me. > Spain has 'Spaniard'. Even so, you'll hear a ton of native Spanish people saying "As a Spanish person" or "As person from Spain" instead of simply "As a Spaniard", I'm not sure this is very surprising. If anything, that mistake makes it more likely they're a native than not, in the case of Spain, as the level of English outside of metropolitan areas is lacking at best, compared to other European countries.
- japanoise 5mo ago
  I'm using the words 'grammatical' and 'ungrammatical' in a linguistic sense; human languages are subtle and fluid, and one doesn't have to be far along the sliding scale between 'doesn't speak a word' and 'well-educated native speaker' to be understood. We speak of 'broken' English when somebody is able to be understood but hasn't fully grasped the language yet; using demonyms incorrectly is a subtler flavor of the same thing. For example 'no come here' -> 'no entering' -> 'no entry'

troad 5mo ago

It is wrong, in the sense that native speakers do not say that, and it triggers what linguists call a "grammaticality judgment" in a native speaker. Same as "He eat apple" or "I am go to school". These may be comprehensible utterances, but they do not fit into a native speaker's internal grammar of valid English sentence structures. Yes, languages can change, but there is no evidence that native speakers have started saying "a French". The only context I've ever seen that in is "As a French...", which strongly implies a non-native speaker of English. The evidence suggests that it's a common language interference error from French, not some future development of English.