6 ms·

Two notes for cynical HN crowd: 1. Why you/penguins should care about this: PFAS suppress immune function and reduce reproductive success in birds [1]. They tr

Two notes for cynical HN crowd: 1. Why you/penguins should care about this: PFAS suppress immune function and reduce reproductive success in birds [1]. They transfer from mothers to eggs and disrupt thyroid hormones and immune organ development in avian embryos [2]. In humans, IARC classified PFOA as a Group 1 carcinogen in 2023, which means there is the highest classification (i.e. International Agency for Research on Cancer is convinced PFAS causes cancer). A 2x increase in serum PFAS is associated with a 49% drop in vaccine antibody levels in children [3]. These are the same compounds showing up in >90% of penguin samples in remote Patagonia. They don't break down. They bioaccumulate up the food chain. And the "safer replacements" like GenX are clearly reaching the ends of the earth too. This is bad for penguins and for people. 2. This is a problem I'm taking seriously. My startup, NeutraOat (neutraoat.com) is developing a modified oat fiber that selectively binds PFAS and plasticizers in the GI tract without stripping nutrients like charcoal does. It will also remove PFAS from the blood. Early-stage, binding data is promising. Clinical trial happening in ~6-9 months. Website has our early data and a pre-order signup form. [1] Vendl et al., "Profiling research on PFAS in wildlife," Ecol Solut Evid, 2024. https://besjournals.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/2688-8319.12292 https://besjournals.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002... [2] Halldin et al., "Developmental exposure to a mixture of PFAAs affects the thyroid hormone system and the bursa of Fabricius in the chicken," Sci Rep, 2019. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-019-56200-9 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-019-56200-9 [3] Grandjean et al., JAMA 2012;307(4):391–397. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22274686/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22274686/

NotGMan 5mo ago
Interesting, best of luck with this, microplastics really are the modern lead. You said it removes them from the blood: does the body dump microplastics in the gut for your product to remove them from the blood or how does it work (if you can answer due to proprietary reasons)? Are saunas and blood donations not also effective for this?
- ben-schaaf 5mo ago
  It's a common misconception, but microplastics and forever-chemicals (PFAS) are not the same thing. They're two similar, but distinct pollutants. > Are saunas and blood donations not also effective for this? Yes, plasma & blood donations are good at reducing PFAS blood concentration. Some(?) firefighting foam contains PFAS, so they tend to have high blood concentrations. Donations have shown to significantly reduce that: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8994130/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8994130/
  - klevertree1 5mo ago
    All the older firefighting foam did. Some of the new stuff does. There's also some amount of "poisoning" from the old equipment to the new foam. Unfortunately, PFAS sticks around forever, so everywhere that the old firefighting foam was deployed (e.g. air force bases) still has high levels of PFAS contamination.
    - ben-schaaf 5mo ago
      There was a scare in 2024 where high levels of PFAS were found in the water supply in the Blue Mountains region of NSW. It took months, but they traced it to a single fire in 1992 where foam was deployed. Scary stuff.
    - contingencies 5mo ago
      So avoid using dry teflon lubricant spray? Will do!
  - bawolff 5mo ago
    > They're two similar, but distinct pollutants. They aren't particularly similar. Honestly, the way the two are conflated is quite annoying. You should be terrified of PFAS. You should be mildly worried about microplastics, mostly because there isn't enough research on the effects yet.
  - ByThyGrace 5mo ago
    Blood donation helps the donor, but what happens to the recipient? Would it not be possible to accumulate PFAS in your blood stream by receiving PFAS-concentrate blood? Is it that simple?
- everdrive 5mo ago
  In PFAS's defense, we really needed to poison the whole planet. Otherwise people would have occasionally needed to get wet in the rain, or perhaps scrub their pots and pans. Really, these extremely minor conveniences are worth the devastating cost to ours and future generations.
  - gryzzly 5mo ago
    so many things contain it, like plumbing tape that a plumber might use right in your water supply - to fix a leak leading to your tap :/ and then the ski waxes until recently. it is really strange lots of these products are still sold all over
    - tristor 5mo ago
      PTFE plumbers tape is not the cause of people getting PFAS in their bloodstream. The PRIMARY source of PFAS for most people is via the water supply [1][2] and the food supply, directly. The food supply is contaminated because the water supply is contaminated and these compounds bio-accumulate in vegetation that is irrigated with contaminated water and in animals that consume that vegetation or drink that contaminated water. As someone very concerned about this issue and that takes precautions that put me very much in the long-tail of the population, I also still use PTFE plumbers tape when doing home repairs. PTFE/Teflon is not a risk factor as long as it is not exposed to high temperatures (>350F) (and yes that means you should throw out your nonstick cookware and learn how to use cast iron and stainless steel for cooking). In order to reduce contamination in my home's drinking water, I have a whole-home water filtration that's lab certified to NSF 53 standards (and beyond) to remove PFAS, and then for drinking and cooking usages, I further filter water via a 5-stage RO system that's certified to NSF 58 standards (and beyond). Not just drinking/cooking incurs contamination, water is aerosolized and breathed in while showering as an example. I only cook using bare metal; cast iron, carbon steel, stainless steel, glass and ceramic bakeware. Even with these precautions, I still get PFAS exposure just via the foods I eat, and being exposed in the overall environment (e.g. through rainfall). [1]: https://www.usgs.gov/news/national-news-release/millions-us-may-rely-groundwater-contaminated-pfas-drinking-water https://www.usgs.gov/news/national-news-release/millions-us-... [2]: https://www.ewg.org/interactive-maps/pfas_contamination/ https://www.ewg.org/interactive-maps/pfas_contamination/
- klevertree1 5mo ago
  PFAS (and, to a lesser extent, plasticizers) circulate from the blood to the gut ~5 times per day through enterohepatic circulation (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enterohepatic_circulation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enterohepatic_circulation). This is why cholestyramine was shown to be effective at reducing serum PFAS by up to 60% in a Swedish trial. Blood donations are also somewhat effective, saunas less so. Also, to be clear, PFAS are very different from microplastics. PFAS are the Teflon chemical.
  - amluto 5mo ago
    > the Teflon chemical Teflon is PTFE, which is fully fluorinated but is also very much a plastic: it’s a highly unreactive solid at reasonable temperatures (which sadly do not include temperatures commonly encountered on stoves). By “the Teflon chemical” are you perhaps referring to the various nasty liquid, water-soluble surfactants commonly used in factories that make or process PTFE? Those include PFOA, PFOS, and the newer and not obviously any safer “GenX” compounds.
    - BenjiWiebe 5mo ago
      Yes, they are referring to PFOA/PFOS; they're talking about PFAS which is the broad class of chemical compounds that includes PFOA/PFAS. And PFAS are not plastics.
  - jcims 5mo ago
    >Blood donations are also somewhat effective, saunas less so. Also, to be clear, PFAS are very different from microplastics. PFAS are the Teflon chemical. I wonder if there's a safe way to equip people to just do simple bloodletting if they have high exposure to PFAS. I mean obviously it's better to donate, even in that case, given the steady state of most blood banks. But it's still a bit of a pain in the ass.
- rustyhancock 5mo ago
  Saunas helping with any kind of detox is complete hocum. Blood donations clearly do. Microplastics and PFAS aren't synonyms however. What isn't established is a dose dependant harm from PFAS. Some things are harmful in minute quantities to the point it doesn't matter if you have a lot or a little. Lead has a clear dose response but a relatively low threshold for noticeable harm. It's not clear what PFAS curve will look like. I won't restart the linear no threshold flame wars about radiation harm but let's just say it's not always intuitive.
  - cindyllm 5mo ago
    [dead]
  - zonkerdonker 5mo ago
    There is plenty of evidence that sauna does in fact help with detox, specifically phthalates. It's not magic or some intrinsic property of sauna though, just sweat. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3504417/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3504417/
    - deleted 5mo ago
      [deleted]
    - deleted 5mo ago
      [deleted]
michael9423 5mo ago
That’s a great idea. Have you compared the effects of your product with non-modified soluble fibers? Afaik, soluble fibers not only from oats but also from vegetables and beans already have solid effects on toxin-binding in their natural state.
ecshafer 5mo ago
My hypothesis is that PFAS and microplastics are responsible for the drop in female fertility, drop in male fertility, drop in testosterone levels, increase in obesity, etc. These chemicals are pervasive in the environment, causing disruptions to the endocrine system that regulates our body. This is why higher elevation areas seem to lag the trends, as they are not getting as much down stream accumulation in the environment. My sister hypothesis GLP-1s are a chemical that is undoing some of that disruption. If what you are doing works, it'll imo be a modern day Norman Borlaug.
Ancalagon 5mo ago
Wow a non-AI startup doing good for the world (no gambling) in 2026? Ycombinator, someone get OP some money! Seriously though, amazing idea I love this.
- ribosometronome 5mo ago
  >no GLP's GLPs are similar to gambling?
  - fao_ 5mo ago
    some people are very bad at reading, I see
- mbonnet 5mo ago
  How are GLPs bad for the world?
  - Ancalagon 5mo ago
    you're right its my own annoyance with the ads, updated my comment
  - apt-apt-apt-apt 5mo ago
    He thinks it's bad to inject drugs, rather than managing calories in/out. I'm not into GLPs, but I could see a reasonable case made for supporting them. For most of the past 50K years, we either had to hunt, walk around, farm, split wood etc. which means burning 500+ calories daily. Now, most of us sit in offices 8 hours a day using 0 calories and 0 muscle, surrounded by calories. It's not surprising really that the default in this situation is obesity.
- throwup238 5mo ago
  If they’re heading towards clinical trials in 6-9 months, tech investors are the last group of people you want involved.
kogasa240p 5mo ago
Impressive and I wish you the best! Hoping you get noticed and get funding.
650REDHAIR 5mo ago
Excellent! I've signed up and look forward to following your success. Your mission is near and dear to my heart- I grew up on an US Air Force base that is a PFAS superfund site and didn't find out about it until much later in life. Recently I've jumped into research linking PFAS contamination in dog food to canine Addison's disease. We've been pretty cavalier with PFAS and it's horrifying.
kevinak 5mo ago
Looking at the studies on the site I’m only seeing comparisons vs placebo and activated charcoal - why not compare to non modified regular beta glucan that is in most oats?

NotGMan 5mo ago

Interesting, best of luck with this, microplastics really are the modern lead. You said it removes them from the blood: does the body dump microplastics in the gut for your product to remove them from the blood or how does it work (if you can answer due to proprietary reasons)? Are saunas and blood donations not also effective for this?

ben-schaaf 5mo ago
It's a common misconception, but microplastics and forever-chemicals (PFAS) are not the same thing. They're two similar, but distinct pollutants. > Are saunas and blood donations not also effective for this? Yes, plasma & blood donations are good at reducing PFAS blood concentration. Some(?) firefighting foam contains PFAS, so they tend to have high blood concentrations. Donations have shown to significantly reduce that: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8994130/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8994130/
- klevertree1 5mo ago
  All the older firefighting foam did. Some of the new stuff does. There's also some amount of "poisoning" from the old equipment to the new foam. Unfortunately, PFAS sticks around forever, so everywhere that the old firefighting foam was deployed (e.g. air force bases) still has high levels of PFAS contamination.
  - ben-schaaf 5mo ago
    There was a scare in 2024 where high levels of PFAS were found in the water supply in the Blue Mountains region of NSW. It took months, but they traced it to a single fire in 1992 where foam was deployed. Scary stuff.
  - contingencies 5mo ago
    So avoid using dry teflon lubricant spray? Will do!
- bawolff 5mo ago
  > They're two similar, but distinct pollutants. They aren't particularly similar. Honestly, the way the two are conflated is quite annoying. You should be terrified of PFAS. You should be mildly worried about microplastics, mostly because there isn't enough research on the effects yet.
- ByThyGrace 5mo ago
  Blood donation helps the donor, but what happens to the recipient? Would it not be possible to accumulate PFAS in your blood stream by receiving PFAS-concentrate blood? Is it that simple?
everdrive 5mo ago
In PFAS's defense, we really needed to poison the whole planet. Otherwise people would have occasionally needed to get wet in the rain, or perhaps scrub their pots and pans. Really, these extremely minor conveniences are worth the devastating cost to ours and future generations.
- gryzzly 5mo ago
  so many things contain it, like plumbing tape that a plumber might use right in your water supply - to fix a leak leading to your tap :/ and then the ski waxes until recently. it is really strange lots of these products are still sold all over
  - tristor 5mo ago
    PTFE plumbers tape is not the cause of people getting PFAS in their bloodstream. The PRIMARY source of PFAS for most people is via the water supply [1][2] and the food supply, directly. The food supply is contaminated because the water supply is contaminated and these compounds bio-accumulate in vegetation that is irrigated with contaminated water and in animals that consume that vegetation or drink that contaminated water. As someone very concerned about this issue and that takes precautions that put me very much in the long-tail of the population, I also still use PTFE plumbers tape when doing home repairs. PTFE/Teflon is not a risk factor as long as it is not exposed to high temperatures (>350F) (and yes that means you should throw out your nonstick cookware and learn how to use cast iron and stainless steel for cooking). In order to reduce contamination in my home's drinking water, I have a whole-home water filtration that's lab certified to NSF 53 standards (and beyond) to remove PFAS, and then for drinking and cooking usages, I further filter water via a 5-stage RO system that's certified to NSF 58 standards (and beyond). Not just drinking/cooking incurs contamination, water is aerosolized and breathed in while showering as an example. I only cook using bare metal; cast iron, carbon steel, stainless steel, glass and ceramic bakeware. Even with these precautions, I still get PFAS exposure just via the foods I eat, and being exposed in the overall environment (e.g. through rainfall). [1]: https://www.usgs.gov/news/national-news-release/millions-us-may-rely-groundwater-contaminated-pfas-drinking-water https://www.usgs.gov/news/national-news-release/millions-us-... [2]: https://www.ewg.org/interactive-maps/pfas_contamination/ https://www.ewg.org/interactive-maps/pfas_contamination/
klevertree1 5mo ago
PFAS (and, to a lesser extent, plasticizers) circulate from the blood to the gut ~5 times per day through enterohepatic circulation (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enterohepatic_circulation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enterohepatic_circulation). This is why cholestyramine was shown to be effective at reducing serum PFAS by up to 60% in a Swedish trial. Blood donations are also somewhat effective, saunas less so. Also, to be clear, PFAS are very different from microplastics. PFAS are the Teflon chemical.
- amluto 5mo ago
  > the Teflon chemical Teflon is PTFE, which is fully fluorinated but is also very much a plastic: it’s a highly unreactive solid at reasonable temperatures (which sadly do not include temperatures commonly encountered on stoves). By “the Teflon chemical” are you perhaps referring to the various nasty liquid, water-soluble surfactants commonly used in factories that make or process PTFE? Those include PFOA, PFOS, and the newer and not obviously any safer “GenX” compounds.
  - BenjiWiebe 5mo ago
    Yes, they are referring to PFOA/PFOS; they're talking about PFAS which is the broad class of chemical compounds that includes PFOA/PFAS. And PFAS are not plastics.
- jcims 5mo ago
  >Blood donations are also somewhat effective, saunas less so. Also, to be clear, PFAS are very different from microplastics. PFAS are the Teflon chemical. I wonder if there's a safe way to equip people to just do simple bloodletting if they have high exposure to PFAS. I mean obviously it's better to donate, even in that case, given the steady state of most blood banks. But it's still a bit of a pain in the ass.
rustyhancock 5mo ago
Saunas helping with any kind of detox is complete hocum. Blood donations clearly do. Microplastics and PFAS aren't synonyms however. What isn't established is a dose dependant harm from PFAS. Some things are harmful in minute quantities to the point it doesn't matter if you have a lot or a little. Lead has a clear dose response but a relatively low threshold for noticeable harm. It's not clear what PFAS curve will look like. I won't restart the linear no threshold flame wars about radiation harm but let's just say it's not always intuitive.
- cindyllm 5mo ago
  [dead]
- zonkerdonker 5mo ago
  There is plenty of evidence that sauna does in fact help with detox, specifically phthalates. It's not magic or some intrinsic property of sauna though, just sweat. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3504417/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3504417/
  - deleted 5mo ago
    [deleted]
  - deleted 5mo ago
    [deleted]

michael9423 5mo ago

That’s a great idea. Have you compared the effects of your product with non-modified soluble fibers? Afaik, soluble fibers not only from oats but also from vegetables and beans already have solid effects on toxin-binding in their natural state.

ecshafer 5mo ago

My hypothesis is that PFAS and microplastics are responsible for the drop in female fertility, drop in male fertility, drop in testosterone levels, increase in obesity, etc. These chemicals are pervasive in the environment, causing disruptions to the endocrine system that regulates our body. This is why higher elevation areas seem to lag the trends, as they are not getting as much down stream accumulation in the environment. My sister hypothesis GLP-1s are a chemical that is undoing some of that disruption. If what you are doing works, it'll imo be a modern day Norman Borlaug.

Ancalagon 5mo ago

Wow a non-AI startup doing good for the world (no gambling) in 2026? Ycombinator, someone get OP some money! Seriously though, amazing idea I love this.

ribosometronome 5mo ago
>no GLP's GLPs are similar to gambling?
- fao_ 5mo ago
  some people are very bad at reading, I see
mbonnet 5mo ago
How are GLPs bad for the world?
- Ancalagon 5mo ago
  you're right its my own annoyance with the ads, updated my comment
- apt-apt-apt-apt 5mo ago
  He thinks it's bad to inject drugs, rather than managing calories in/out. I'm not into GLPs, but I could see a reasonable case made for supporting them. For most of the past 50K years, we either had to hunt, walk around, farm, split wood etc. which means burning 500+ calories daily. Now, most of us sit in offices 8 hours a day using 0 calories and 0 muscle, surrounded by calories. It's not surprising really that the default in this situation is obesity.
throwup238 5mo ago
If they’re heading towards clinical trials in 6-9 months, tech investors are the last group of people you want involved.

kogasa240p 5mo ago

Impressive and I wish you the best! Hoping you get noticed and get funding.

650REDHAIR 5mo ago

Excellent! I've signed up and look forward to following your success. Your mission is near and dear to my heart- I grew up on an US Air Force base that is a PFAS superfund site and didn't find out about it until much later in life. Recently I've jumped into research linking PFAS contamination in dog food to canine Addison's disease. We've been pretty cavalier with PFAS and it's horrifying.

kevinak 5mo ago

Looking at the studies on the site I’m only seeing comparisons vs placebo and activated charcoal - why not compare to non modified regular beta glucan that is in most oats?