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From perusing reddit, I see some Windows users tempted to consider Linux, often because of Windows 11. But then, many of them won't move because: it doesn't wor

From perusing reddit, I see some Windows users tempted to consider Linux, often because of Windows 11. But then, many of them won't move because: it doesn't work just like Windows; there is some Windows application they must have, or maybe they just don't want to learn the alternatives. Or they use word/excel/powerpoint and have to interact with others who do also. The brainwashing, high tolerance for pain and misery (and expense!), and lock-in makes it close to impossible for ordinary computer users to escape.

bsder 5mo ago
> maybe they just don't want to learn the alternatives. Or they use word/excel/powerpoint and have to interact with others who do also. If they're on Office 365, they could be on Linux.
- knollimar 5mo ago
  The browser version of excel is vastly inferior for power users
- duskdozer 5mo ago
  Or winapps/cassowary/<latest tool> I try to use libreoffice when possible but sometimes the performance takes a nosedive for opaque reasons when excel is ok
  - subscribed 5mo ago
    Every time I try to edit my cv containing many disconnected tables I want to scream from the frustration. In Ms Office it's always the breeze and 2 minute job. In Libre office it's 15 at least, multiple fights with pages suddenly breaking, cells and rows refusing to stick to my dimensions or something perfectly fine in the print preview lose edges of the cells (ie missing letter, etc) when actually on paper/pdf. Infuriating. And I didn't even started about printing in Linux. What works in android ootb didn't consistently work for me across two distributions, several years and many versions. Papercut is the worst but cups is close second.
reddalo 5mo ago
Linux Mint is super easy to use. I've personally battle tested it with my elder parents. Given all the nagware present in Windows 11, I'd even say Linux Mint is easier than Windows. The most difficult part is probably the installation itself.
- scorpionfeet 5mo ago
  Not if you are coming from windows and are not a tech nerd. I don’t want to end up being tech support for some non techie I coerced into Linux. It is nowhere near as seamless as zealots like to believe. Been having this discussion since 1997.
  - inetknght 5mo ago
    > It is nowhere near as seamless as zealots like to believe. Perhaps not. But it's still more seamless than Windows these days. Microsoft keeps lowering the bar.
    - array_key_first 5mo ago
      It's not just that Microsoft keeps lowering the bar, although they do. Linux desktops have also improved A LOT, especially in the last 10 years. We're at the point where UI-wise they run laps around Windows, and often even MacOS. They're intuitive, simple, and powerful. The problem is that they're not windows. People know how to use Windows, including how to work around the layers of jank. When you remove the layers of jank, expectations get broken and users get confused.
  - reddalo 5mo ago
    Have you actually tried a modern distro like Linux Mint? Seriously, you don't even need to touch the terminal, everything is neatly organized in a single control panel (unlike the messy >2 control panels situation of Windows). You can easily install all the applications you want; even games thanks to Steam and Proton. It's easy to use, there are no ads, no preinstalled adware, no nagware, everything is fast and clean.
p_ing 5mo ago
> The brainwashing, high tolerance for pain and misery (and expense!), and lock-in makes it close to impossible for ordinary computer users to escape. Or opposite of the house, the arrogance and presumption.
raincole 5mo ago
Call it brainwashing or whatever. But the reality is that even one single popular app not working out of box is enough barrier preventing people from switching. I've tried to convince people to use Linux. The conversation usually ended when they realize Photoshop isn't natively support Linux. And after many attempts, I ended up being converted to Windows + WSL.
qwerpy 5mo ago
For me the apps that don’t exist on Linux are Fusion360 (3d printing modeling) and OneNote (shared notebook with my non-technical wife that syncs to mobile). I also have zero tolerance for needing to tweak settings to make a game work on Linux. So I’m stuck on windows for now. Every month I have to spend an hour fighting some new asshole behavior concocted up by some ambitious Microsoft product manager. The latest one was them adding Windows Store results to the start menu search. I use start menu search to launch applications and suddenly some games from the store started showing up when I did my usual searches. The only way to stop it was to uninstall the windows store entirely using a power shell command.
- throwaway173738 5mo ago
  Is it really that much easier to fight Microsoft? Say what you will about tweaking settings in Linux but it lets you do just about whatever you want. And the settings changes are at least understood and documented. I’d hate to use an OS that you repeatedly have to fight with over its user hostile changes. Every time I boot Windows in a VM I’m reminded of how much harder Windows users have it because they can’t just do whatever they want with the computer, it has to be done with Microsoft’s blessing.
  - qwerpy 5mo ago
    It's probably my last Windows. It's getting harder to undo the shenanigans each time they push out another update. The moment I can't undo it, I'll move to Linux. I'll learn FreeCad and use Onenote in a browser. I have a long backlog of games that I finally have time to play, and for now they all just work on Windows. They probably 95% just work on Linux too, but it's that 5% that gives me pause.
    - futune 5mo ago
      If the games you want are on steam, check if they are on this list: https://areweanticheatyet.com/ https://areweanticheatyet.com/ If there is no anticheat (or the anticheat is supported), and the game is on steam, then I would wager that it would "just work". My feeling is that it's more like 99% now. Non steam games can be more problematic (I had issues with the blizzard/wow launcher for instance, it can be made to work but definitely doesn't "just work"). Happy gaming!
tracker1 5mo ago
For the office apps, the cloud versions work well enough... I think even Visio (additional fees) cloud/web version actually works okay now, I haven't used it recently. At least well enough for the occasional interaction if Libre/Only Office don't work well enough for you.

bsder 5mo ago

> maybe they just don't want to learn the alternatives. Or they use word/excel/powerpoint and have to interact with others who do also. If they're on Office 365, they could be on Linux.

knollimar 5mo ago
The browser version of excel is vastly inferior for power users
duskdozer 5mo ago
Or winapps/cassowary/<latest tool> I try to use libreoffice when possible but sometimes the performance takes a nosedive for opaque reasons when excel is ok
- subscribed 5mo ago
  Every time I try to edit my cv containing many disconnected tables I want to scream from the frustration. In Ms Office it's always the breeze and 2 minute job. In Libre office it's 15 at least, multiple fights with pages suddenly breaking, cells and rows refusing to stick to my dimensions or something perfectly fine in the print preview lose edges of the cells (ie missing letter, etc) when actually on paper/pdf. Infuriating. And I didn't even started about printing in Linux. What works in android ootb didn't consistently work for me across two distributions, several years and many versions. Papercut is the worst but cups is close second.

reddalo 5mo ago

Linux Mint is super easy to use. I've personally battle tested it with my elder parents. Given all the nagware present in Windows 11, I'd even say Linux Mint is easier than Windows. The most difficult part is probably the installation itself.

scorpionfeet 5mo ago
Not if you are coming from windows and are not a tech nerd. I don’t want to end up being tech support for some non techie I coerced into Linux. It is nowhere near as seamless as zealots like to believe. Been having this discussion since 1997.
- inetknght 5mo ago
  > It is nowhere near as seamless as zealots like to believe. Perhaps not. But it's still more seamless than Windows these days. Microsoft keeps lowering the bar.
  - array_key_first 5mo ago
    It's not just that Microsoft keeps lowering the bar, although they do. Linux desktops have also improved A LOT, especially in the last 10 years. We're at the point where UI-wise they run laps around Windows, and often even MacOS. They're intuitive, simple, and powerful. The problem is that they're not windows. People know how to use Windows, including how to work around the layers of jank. When you remove the layers of jank, expectations get broken and users get confused.
- reddalo 5mo ago
  Have you actually tried a modern distro like Linux Mint? Seriously, you don't even need to touch the terminal, everything is neatly organized in a single control panel (unlike the messy >2 control panels situation of Windows). You can easily install all the applications you want; even games thanks to Steam and Proton. It's easy to use, there are no ads, no preinstalled adware, no nagware, everything is fast and clean.

p_ing 5mo ago

> The brainwashing, high tolerance for pain and misery (and expense!), and lock-in makes it close to impossible for ordinary computer users to escape. Or opposite of the house, the arrogance and presumption.

raincole 5mo ago

Call it brainwashing or whatever. But the reality is that even one single popular app not working out of box is enough barrier preventing people from switching. I've tried to convince people to use Linux. The conversation usually ended when they realize Photoshop isn't natively support Linux. And after many attempts, I ended up being converted to Windows + WSL.

qwerpy 5mo ago

For me the apps that don’t exist on Linux are Fusion360 (3d printing modeling) and OneNote (shared notebook with my non-technical wife that syncs to mobile). I also have zero tolerance for needing to tweak settings to make a game work on Linux. So I’m stuck on windows for now. Every month I have to spend an hour fighting some new asshole behavior concocted up by some ambitious Microsoft product manager. The latest one was them adding Windows Store results to the start menu search. I use start menu search to launch applications and suddenly some games from the store started showing up when I did my usual searches. The only way to stop it was to uninstall the windows store entirely using a power shell command.

throwaway173738 5mo ago
Is it really that much easier to fight Microsoft? Say what you will about tweaking settings in Linux but it lets you do just about whatever you want. And the settings changes are at least understood and documented. I’d hate to use an OS that you repeatedly have to fight with over its user hostile changes. Every time I boot Windows in a VM I’m reminded of how much harder Windows users have it because they can’t just do whatever they want with the computer, it has to be done with Microsoft’s blessing.
- qwerpy 5mo ago
  It's probably my last Windows. It's getting harder to undo the shenanigans each time they push out another update. The moment I can't undo it, I'll move to Linux. I'll learn FreeCad and use Onenote in a browser. I have a long backlog of games that I finally have time to play, and for now they all just work on Windows. They probably 95% just work on Linux too, but it's that 5% that gives me pause.
  - futune 5mo ago
    If the games you want are on steam, check if they are on this list: https://areweanticheatyet.com/ https://areweanticheatyet.com/ If there is no anticheat (or the anticheat is supported), and the game is on steam, then I would wager that it would "just work". My feeling is that it's more like 99% now. Non steam games can be more problematic (I had issues with the blizzard/wow launcher for instance, it can be made to work but definitely doesn't "just work"). Happy gaming!

tracker1 5mo ago

For the office apps, the cloud versions work well enough... I think even Visio (additional fees) cloud/web version actually works okay now, I haven't used it recently. At least well enough for the occasional interaction if Libre/Only Office don't work well enough for you.