6 ms·

TBF - It still does "just work," The fact that it doesn't completely fit into your (and my) preferences doesn't really change that, and if that's the standard,

by sosborn 6mo ago

TBF - It still does "just work," The fact that it doesn't completely fit into your (and my) preferences doesn't really change that, and if that's the standard, then everything will fall short of it.

oaweoifjwpo 6mo ago
If the icons are just hidden and you can't find them in order to use the programs you have running, that's not "just working". That's broken functionality. Windows has solved this with the overflow menu for literally decades.
- xnyan 6mo ago
  > Windows has solved this with the overflow menu for literally decades. I was a huge Windows fanboy, now completely Apple but this was single most annoying regression of functionality when switching and one of the only things I miss.
- quietsegfault 6mo ago
  I have never seen anyone with enough menu bar icons to have them hide, nor have I known anyone who ran into that problem. It’s a bug that should be fixed, but I just don’t think it’s as big of a deal as it’s made out to be.
  - inopinatus 6mo ago
    "I don't have any experience with that problem, it follows that no-one has that problem".
  - oaweoifjwpo 6mo ago
    Just because you have never personally seen a bug occur doesn't mean it isn't a problem. This very article is about how Tailscale frequently gets reports of them being hidden. And I personally have had the icons hidden. My work laptop has a lot of stuff running on it (much of it is mandatory: VPN, custom company processes, Google Drive, etc) and combined with my personal preferred programs (f.lux, etc) it occasionally hits the limit and goes under the notch.
  - Kaliboy 6mo ago
    Did we read the same article? It literally drove them to create a new application.
    - oaweoifjwpo 6mo ago
      This is the fairly standard Apple defensework where "it just works, but if it doesn't work it's probably not a real problem" despite plenty of evidence to the contrary.
  - deleted 6mo ago
    [deleted]
  - sensanaty 6mo ago
    It only takes like 6 extra apps for items to start being hidden, it's really not that rare of an occurrence.
  - rcakebread 6mo ago
    "nor have I known anyone who ran into that problem" Why on earth would people tell you that?
- cpach 6mo ago
  I vastly prefer Mac over Windows, but I think you have a good point. This is definitely one area where Microsoft found a more reasonable solution.
- tokioyoyo 6mo ago
  I’ve been solely mac user for the past 15+ years, and have no idea what this thread is talking about. I think, as the other person said, we make assumptions on what’s a problem for others, when in reality, it’s not a big deal.
  - longislandguido 6mo ago
    Why does every Mac complaint thread since the beginning of time always feature the "I've never heard of this so it must not be a legitimate issue" guy?
    - fragmede 6mo ago
      Ah, but does it work when mice are using the computer, or is it only when humans are.
      - nandomrumber 6mo ago
        New research indicates proprietary software may be less toxic than scientists previously believed, in mice.
      - longislandguido 6mo ago
        Are these mice the one-button species?
        fragmede 6mo ago
        My biggest frustration with Apple was the number of buttons on their mouse. They heard my complains, and changed the number of buttons by one. I just didn't think they'd go to zero instead of two!
  - packetlost 6mo ago
    Just because you have never hit the issue doesn't mean it doesn't exist. This particular issue will only really show up on notched devices with a small screen and a lot of status bar icons. It's highly dependent on what model mac you run on.
- dangus 6mo ago
  It will not only cut off icons but the menus for applications when they have a lot of them. There is no way to fix it except to change your scaling or connect a second monitor. I should save this thread for every time someone tries to tell me that Windows is a horrible operating system that is a major reason to not buy a computer when I say things like "The MacBook Neo isn't that good of a deal and you can totally find a Windows laptop in the price range that's built well enough, has similar performance/battery life (or better)/trackpad, and leaves you with more RAM, storage, and I/O." I've literally picked out laptops that are clearly better buys than the Neo/Air and people will tell me things like "well then you're stuck with Windows" or "but you'll have firmware problems" and then we have to remember that Apple has had plenty of that in their past. How about those Nvidia GPUs that would fail inevitably in older MacBook Pros? Or the butterfly keyboard? Or how they can’t even make window corners that match with the Liquid Glass update?
  - odo1242 6mo ago
    Do you have a suggestion for a Windows laptop that’s a better buy than the MacBook Neo? I kinda want a Windows laptop (for being able to run simple games, mostly) but not sure which one
    - longislandguido 6mo ago
      Walmart is selling a HP gaming laptop with 16GB RAM and 512 GB SSD for $699—same price as the Neo. Keep in mind it's not Magic Mac Memory because someone will jump in and tell us that 8GB of Mac memory is clearly superior to 16GB of PC memory because Macs are able to swap and wear down your SSD in the process.
      - dangus 6mo ago
        I have pointed out this stat before: Global user base Mac: 100 million (2024) PC gamers: 900 million A lot of Mac enthusiasts seem to scoff at the idea that someone buying a laptop wants it to be able to play some kind of video games. Apple can make the greatest computer in the world but for many customers the fact that it can only run ~5% of games or whatever is a dealbreaker. The Neo can play many games on some level but having 8GB of RAM plus needing to share it between the CPU and GPU is a major disadvantage. The lack of a fan also hampers performance of the chip inside of it by something like 15-30%, rather than including one for a nominal cost to maximize performance. It’s totally fine for the intended customer but it’s a computer for a very specific customer, more niche/specific than a customer who “just wants to play some CS:Go on the side.” Apple could swallow their pride and partner with Steam but they’ll never willingly encourage their users to use a different App Store even if it makes the computer better.
gehsty 6mo ago
It doesn’t just work though - icons are hidden from users, with no way of users knowing they are hidden. macOS is still better than windows, but my feeling is it’s more of a glass of cheap warm whiskey in hell than a cool glass of ice water.

by sosborn 6mo ago

TBF - It still does "just work," The fact that it doesn't completely fit into your (and my) preferences doesn't really change that, and if that's the standard, then everything will fall short of it.

oaweoifjwpo 6mo ago

If the icons are just hidden and you can't find them in order to use the programs you have running, that's not "just working". That's broken functionality. Windows has solved this with the overflow menu for literally decades.

xnyan 6mo ago
> Windows has solved this with the overflow menu for literally decades. I was a huge Windows fanboy, now completely Apple but this was single most annoying regression of functionality when switching and one of the only things I miss.
quietsegfault 6mo ago
I have never seen anyone with enough menu bar icons to have them hide, nor have I known anyone who ran into that problem. It’s a bug that should be fixed, but I just don’t think it’s as big of a deal as it’s made out to be.
- inopinatus 6mo ago
  "I don't have any experience with that problem, it follows that no-one has that problem".
- oaweoifjwpo 6mo ago
  Just because you have never personally seen a bug occur doesn't mean it isn't a problem. This very article is about how Tailscale frequently gets reports of them being hidden. And I personally have had the icons hidden. My work laptop has a lot of stuff running on it (much of it is mandatory: VPN, custom company processes, Google Drive, etc) and combined with my personal preferred programs (f.lux, etc) it occasionally hits the limit and goes under the notch.
- Kaliboy 6mo ago
  Did we read the same article? It literally drove them to create a new application.
  - oaweoifjwpo 6mo ago
    This is the fairly standard Apple defensework where "it just works, but if it doesn't work it's probably not a real problem" despite plenty of evidence to the contrary.
- deleted 6mo ago
  [deleted]
- sensanaty 6mo ago
  It only takes like 6 extra apps for items to start being hidden, it's really not that rare of an occurrence.
- rcakebread 6mo ago
  "nor have I known anyone who ran into that problem" Why on earth would people tell you that?
cpach 6mo ago
I vastly prefer Mac over Windows, but I think you have a good point. This is definitely one area where Microsoft found a more reasonable solution.
tokioyoyo 6mo ago
I’ve been solely mac user for the past 15+ years, and have no idea what this thread is talking about. I think, as the other person said, we make assumptions on what’s a problem for others, when in reality, it’s not a big deal.
- longislandguido 6mo ago
  Why does every Mac complaint thread since the beginning of time always feature the "I've never heard of this so it must not be a legitimate issue" guy?
  - fragmede 6mo ago
    Ah, but does it work when mice are using the computer, or is it only when humans are.
    - nandomrumber 6mo ago
      New research indicates proprietary software may be less toxic than scientists previously believed, in mice.
    - longislandguido 6mo ago
      Are these mice the one-button species?
      - fragmede 6mo ago
        My biggest frustration with Apple was the number of buttons on their mouse. They heard my complains, and changed the number of buttons by one. I just didn't think they'd go to zero instead of two!
- packetlost 6mo ago
  Just because you have never hit the issue doesn't mean it doesn't exist. This particular issue will only really show up on notched devices with a small screen and a lot of status bar icons. It's highly dependent on what model mac you run on.
dangus 6mo ago
It will not only cut off icons but the menus for applications when they have a lot of them. There is no way to fix it except to change your scaling or connect a second monitor. I should save this thread for every time someone tries to tell me that Windows is a horrible operating system that is a major reason to not buy a computer when I say things like "The MacBook Neo isn't that good of a deal and you can totally find a Windows laptop in the price range that's built well enough, has similar performance/battery life (or better)/trackpad, and leaves you with more RAM, storage, and I/O." I've literally picked out laptops that are clearly better buys than the Neo/Air and people will tell me things like "well then you're stuck with Windows" or "but you'll have firmware problems" and then we have to remember that Apple has had plenty of that in their past. How about those Nvidia GPUs that would fail inevitably in older MacBook Pros? Or the butterfly keyboard? Or how they can’t even make window corners that match with the Liquid Glass update?
- odo1242 6mo ago
  Do you have a suggestion for a Windows laptop that’s a better buy than the MacBook Neo? I kinda want a Windows laptop (for being able to run simple games, mostly) but not sure which one
  - longislandguido 6mo ago
    Walmart is selling a HP gaming laptop with 16GB RAM and 512 GB SSD for $699—same price as the Neo. Keep in mind it's not Magic Mac Memory because someone will jump in and tell us that 8GB of Mac memory is clearly superior to 16GB of PC memory because Macs are able to swap and wear down your SSD in the process.
    - dangus 6mo ago
      I have pointed out this stat before: Global user base Mac: 100 million (2024) PC gamers: 900 million A lot of Mac enthusiasts seem to scoff at the idea that someone buying a laptop wants it to be able to play some kind of video games. Apple can make the greatest computer in the world but for many customers the fact that it can only run ~5% of games or whatever is a dealbreaker. The Neo can play many games on some level but having 8GB of RAM plus needing to share it between the CPU and GPU is a major disadvantage. The lack of a fan also hampers performance of the chip inside of it by something like 15-30%, rather than including one for a nominal cost to maximize performance. It’s totally fine for the intended customer but it’s a computer for a very specific customer, more niche/specific than a customer who “just wants to play some CS:Go on the side.” Apple could swallow their pride and partner with Steam but they’ll never willingly encourage their users to use a different App Store even if it makes the computer better.

gehsty 6mo ago

It doesn’t just work though - icons are hidden from users, with no way of users knowing they are hidden. macOS is still better than windows, but my feeling is it’s more of a glass of cheap warm whiskey in hell than a cool glass of ice water.