6 ms·

I've been observing their behavior in Atlanta for about the past year. Our roads here are fairly curvy, hilly, and lacking of expected markings, yet I haven't s

by bt1a 6mo ago

I've been observing their behavior in Atlanta for about the past year. Our roads here are fairly curvy, hilly, and lacking of expected markings, yet I haven't seen a driverless Waymo vehicle make a single odd move. One thing that brought a smile to my face was when I came to a 4-way stop at the same time as a Waymo vehicle at night & I flash my brights to tell the other vehicle to go ahead (southern hospitality) and I see the Waymo immediately begin its course through the intersection. I was so jolted that I began to tail it in order to pull up next to it to see if there was a human behind the wheel. Watching it drive down this slowly descending hilly road with intermittent speed humps and cars parked alongside the main right lane gave me a close up view of its slightly curving trajectory and braking behavior with regard to the humps. My thought on human or not was inconclusive until we reached a red light, and as I shot my eyes over and saw an empty driver seat, I smiled widely knowing that the software responds to brights flashed at 4-way stops (please don't tell me it doesn't and it just saw me indecisively not initiate at the stop). Thanks for reading

kfarr 6mo ago
It definitely does not respond to flashing headlights in that manner. You’re observing its default behavior when at a 4 way stop with other vehicles not moving.
- djsavvy 6mo ago
  How are you saying that so confidently? Waymos respond to traffic cops directing traffic manually
  - jmalicki 6mo ago
    Unlike the traffic cops directing traffic that would likely require special programming, "proceed if the other car flashes its lights at you" is completely the kind of thing that could just accidentally fall out of a neural network learning to imitate humans.
    - shawabawa3 6mo ago
      Hopefully if they ever go to Sri Lanka they get localised tuning because I was surprised to find out flashing your lights over there doesn't mean "go ahead", it means "if you don't get out of my way I will ram you"
      - j0e1 6mo ago
        This is true for India too though traffic there isn't known for its rules.
      - 0x3f 6mo ago
        I hate the countries that do this because it doesn't even make sense as a signal. We already have a horn. They are wasting a channel!
        fc417fc802 6mo ago
        It also doesn't make sense because "get out of my way or I will ram you" is the default state of operating a motor vehicle. Not the goal but the physical reality of it.
        necovek 6mo ago
        At highway speeds, engine, road and wind noise usually make horns inaudible. In Serbia, on top of get-out-of-my-way, it's also used to signal go-ahead, but also "police with speed radars ahead" to incoming traffic.
        0x3f 6mo ago
        I think we're not interpreting the original comment in the same way. In most places, I think, when driving on the highway, flashing your lights when behind someone means basically 'I would like to overtake you'. Same here in the UK. But that's very specific to that context. You would never see a 'go ahead' context that would mean 'get out of my way', right? But what the original comment means is there are some countries where you'd think it was 'go ahead' but it really means 'get out of the way'. Like if you're both on a main road, and you are signaling to turn into a side road, the opposing car flashes the lights and that means you can turn. I assume the same in Serbia. But in some places that can actually mean don't turn, I'm going first. Which I think is what the parent is describing.
  - kfarr 6mo ago
    You're right I don't have inside information, but we've been interacting with them on the street for years in SF. Waymos don't wait for human subjective guidance to give them clearance to pass, as evidenced by tons of videos and IRL experience. As soon as they come to a required stop, and if a vehicle or other object's linear travel path does not intersect it, it will go. Flashing lights will not change this behavior. (Yes you're right there is a regulatory requirement to respond to safety officer guidance, but compliance is spotty as evidenced by a lot of videos of vehicles entering active crime zones, etc.)
- HaZeust 6mo ago
  A quaint, positive anecdotal comment?? On MY internet?!?!
- dyauspitr 6mo ago
  How do you know? It’s trained on videos where it might see that happen often.
- elil17 6mo ago
  Why wouldn't it be trained to do that? You can easily include that in the training data. It's not like the people building Waymo have never heard of flashing your brights before.

by bt1a 6mo ago

kfarr 6mo ago

It definitely does not respond to flashing headlights in that manner. You’re observing its default behavior when at a 4 way stop with other vehicles not moving.

djsavvy 6mo ago
How are you saying that so confidently? Waymos respond to traffic cops directing traffic manually
- jmalicki 6mo ago
  Unlike the traffic cops directing traffic that would likely require special programming, "proceed if the other car flashes its lights at you" is completely the kind of thing that could just accidentally fall out of a neural network learning to imitate humans.
  - shawabawa3 6mo ago
    Hopefully if they ever go to Sri Lanka they get localised tuning because I was surprised to find out flashing your lights over there doesn't mean "go ahead", it means "if you don't get out of my way I will ram you"
    - j0e1 6mo ago
      This is true for India too though traffic there isn't known for its rules.
    - 0x3f 6mo ago
      I hate the countries that do this because it doesn't even make sense as a signal. We already have a horn. They are wasting a channel!
      - fc417fc802 6mo ago
        It also doesn't make sense because "get out of my way or I will ram you" is the default state of operating a motor vehicle. Not the goal but the physical reality of it.
      - necovek 6mo ago
        At highway speeds, engine, road and wind noise usually make horns inaudible. In Serbia, on top of get-out-of-my-way, it's also used to signal go-ahead, but also "police with speed radars ahead" to incoming traffic.
        0x3f 6mo ago
        I think we're not interpreting the original comment in the same way. In most places, I think, when driving on the highway, flashing your lights when behind someone means basically 'I would like to overtake you'. Same here in the UK. But that's very specific to that context. You would never see a 'go ahead' context that would mean 'get out of my way', right? But what the original comment means is there are some countries where you'd think it was 'go ahead' but it really means 'get out of the way'. Like if you're both on a main road, and you are signaling to turn into a side road, the opposing car flashes the lights and that means you can turn. I assume the same in Serbia. But in some places that can actually mean don't turn, I'm going first. Which I think is what the parent is describing.
- kfarr 6mo ago
  You're right I don't have inside information, but we've been interacting with them on the street for years in SF. Waymos don't wait for human subjective guidance to give them clearance to pass, as evidenced by tons of videos and IRL experience. As soon as they come to a required stop, and if a vehicle or other object's linear travel path does not intersect it, it will go. Flashing lights will not change this behavior. (Yes you're right there is a regulatory requirement to respond to safety officer guidance, but compliance is spotty as evidenced by a lot of videos of vehicles entering active crime zones, etc.)
HaZeust 6mo ago
A quaint, positive anecdotal comment?? On MY internet?!?!
dyauspitr 6mo ago
How do you know? It’s trained on videos where it might see that happen often.
elil17 6mo ago
Why wouldn't it be trained to do that? You can easily include that in the training data. It's not like the people building Waymo have never heard of flashing your brights before.