4 ms·

Worth noting that mcollina is a member of the Node.js Technical Steering Committee

by mixologic 6mo ago

everlier 6mo ago
We call it a slip slop at work, it's ok to slip some slop if it's "our" slop :-)
- giancarlostoro 6mo ago
  > I pointed the AI at the tedious parts, the stuff that makes a 14k-line PR possible but no human wants to hand-write: implementing every fs method variant (sync, callback, promises), wiring up test coverage, and generating docs. Is it slop if it is carefully calculated? I tire of hearing people use slop to mean anything AI, even when it is carefully reviewed.
  - grey-area 6mo ago
    Was 14k lines carefully reviewed? Seems unlikely.
    - joshkel 6mo ago
      Considering the many hundreds of technical comments over at the PR (https://github.com/nodejs/node/pull/61478 https://github.com/nodejs/node/pull/61478), the 8 reviewers thanked by name in the article, and the stellar reputations of those involved, seems likely.
      - keeganpoppen 6mo ago
        [flagged]
      - grey-area 6mo ago
        My mistake 19k lines. At 2 mins per line that’s (19000*2)/60/7=90 7-hour days to review it all, are you sure it was all read? I mean they couldn’t be bothered to write it, so what are the chances they read it all? For someone’s website or one business maybe the risk is worth it, for a widely used software project that many others build on it is horrifying to see that much plausible code generated by an LLM.
        pull_my_finger 6mo ago
        When you review code, do you spend 2 minutes per line? That seems like a huge exaggeration of effort required
        seattle_spring 6mo ago
        I probably review about 1k LoC worth of PRs / day from my coworkers. It certainly doesn't take me 33 hours (!!) to do so, so I must be one of those rockstar 10x superhero ninja engineers I keep hearing about.
        dirkc 6mo ago
        Are your coworkers producing the code using LLMs? And what level of trust do you place in them?
        ThunderSizzle 6mo ago
        For half my coworkers, their LLM code is better than their code.
        girvo 6mo ago
        That’s depressing. For 80% of my coworkers their LLM code is horrible. Only the seniors seem to use it well and not just spit out garbage
        ThunderSizzle 6mo ago
        I think that goes back to whether they are programmers vs engineers. Engineers will focus on professionalism of the end product, even if they used AI to generate most of the product. And I'm not going by "title", but by mindset. Most of my fellow engineers are not - they are just programmers - as in, they don't care about the non-coding part of the job at all.
        6mo ago
    - vinnymac 6mo ago
      I carefully review far more than 14k LoC a week… I’m sure many here do. Certainly the language you write in will greatly bloat those numbers though, and Node in particular can be fairly boilerplate heavy.
kartaka83838 6mo ago
yes this. if there's anyone i would trust in exploring these avenues, it's him and the maintainers doing god's work in the nodejs repo in these past few years.

Worth noting that mcollina is a member of the Node.js Technical Steering Committee

everlier 6mo ago

We call it a slip slop at work, it's ok to slip some slop if it's "our" slop :-)

giancarlostoro 6mo ago
> I pointed the AI at the tedious parts, the stuff that makes a 14k-line PR possible but no human wants to hand-write: implementing every fs method variant (sync, callback, promises), wiring up test coverage, and generating docs. Is it slop if it is carefully calculated? I tire of hearing people use slop to mean anything AI, even when it is carefully reviewed.
- grey-area 6mo ago
  Was 14k lines carefully reviewed? Seems unlikely.
  - joshkel 6mo ago
    Considering the many hundreds of technical comments over at the PR (https://github.com/nodejs/node/pull/61478 https://github.com/nodejs/node/pull/61478), the 8 reviewers thanked by name in the article, and the stellar reputations of those involved, seems likely.
    - keeganpoppen 6mo ago
      [flagged]
    - grey-area 6mo ago
      My mistake 19k lines. At 2 mins per line that’s (19000*2)/60/7=90 7-hour days to review it all, are you sure it was all read? I mean they couldn’t be bothered to write it, so what are the chances they read it all? For someone’s website or one business maybe the risk is worth it, for a widely used software project that many others build on it is horrifying to see that much plausible code generated by an LLM.
      - pull_my_finger 6mo ago
        When you review code, do you spend 2 minutes per line? That seems like a huge exaggeration of effort required
        seattle_spring 6mo ago
        I probably review about 1k LoC worth of PRs / day from my coworkers. It certainly doesn't take me 33 hours (!!) to do so, so I must be one of those rockstar 10x superhero ninja engineers I keep hearing about.
        dirkc 6mo ago
        Are your coworkers producing the code using LLMs? And what level of trust do you place in them?
        ThunderSizzle 6mo ago
        For half my coworkers, their LLM code is better than their code.
        girvo 6mo ago
        That’s depressing. For 80% of my coworkers their LLM code is horrible. Only the seniors seem to use it well and not just spit out garbage
        ThunderSizzle 6mo ago
        I think that goes back to whether they are programmers vs engineers. Engineers will focus on professionalism of the end product, even if they used AI to generate most of the product. And I'm not going by "title", but by mindset. Most of my fellow engineers are not - they are just programmers - as in, they don't care about the non-coding part of the job at all.
        6mo ago
  - vinnymac 6mo ago
    I carefully review far more than 14k LoC a week… I’m sure many here do. Certainly the language you write in will greatly bloat those numbers though, and Node in particular can be fairly boilerplate heavy.

kartaka83838 6mo ago

yes this. if there's anyone i would trust in exploring these avenues, it's him and the maintainers doing god's work in the nodejs repo in these past few years.