5 ms·

Perfectly encapsulates the state of the job market. Interviewing is genuinely a hellscape at this point and I've experienced many interviews where there was a c

by ossa-ma 6mo ago

Perfectly encapsulates the state of the job market. Interviewing is genuinely a hellscape at this point and I've experienced many interviews where there was a complete breakdown of etiquette/guidelines and good faith. One was so bad I had to write about it: https://ossama.is/writing/betrayed https://ossama.is/writing/betrayed

quibono 6mo ago
Sorry to hear that, here I was thinking that a blog like this could only be a good signal and a jumping-off point in an interview. Oh well
xlii 6mo ago
Geez. Good one. Was in something similar lately. 10 weeks wasted and a shittiest feedback ever. These companies should be legally required to pay candidates for gauntlets they put them through.
- ossa-ma 6mo ago
  The lack of feedback is the worst part and is increasingly more common. Zero respect for the candidates time investment and propagates a terrible culture.
  - whatever1 6mo ago
    Most of big-CO legal teams do not allow for feedback to be communicated to the candidates. They are afraid the candidates will sue base on that. That is not new.
    - _DeadFred_ 6mo ago
      Our entire system is getting so bogged down by things like this that it is ceasing to function. Lots of things that make sense individually but are breaking the previous social contract, or removing the grease that made things work.
      - joquarky 6mo ago
        Systems without slack are brittle.
    - lurking_swe 6mo ago
      They could at least allow hiring teams to send out a feedback email that highlights what the candidate did WELL, at a high level. This way the candidate gets some meaningful signal, while the company avoids the legal gray area of admitting why they rejected them. Just add a disclaimer like “unfortunately company policy prohibits us from explicitly mentioning why we chose another candidate.” But you’d need to actually care to take something like that into consideration so… ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
      - whatever1 6mo ago
        Have you ever talked to a lawyer? The only thing that they keep repeating is "shut your mouth".
        randomNumber7 6mo ago
        Which is the right advise when you live in the current society.
        Gander5739 6mo ago
        Advice. (Yes, it's a compulsion; I can't help myself.)
  - Otterly99 6mo ago
    Some jobs that I interviewed replied with an automated email saying that, if I wanted, I could ask for feedback. I always did and none of them replied... This somehow feels even more insulting.
- IshKebab 6mo ago
  Once I got really detailed feedback from an interview for a job I didn't get. It really took me by surprise! I didn't even have to ask. It was quite interesting too because the things they'd inferred about me - stuff that I had understood or not understood - were just plain wrong. I didn't get everything right, but some bits I did understand fine, they thought I didn't. I'm not sure what to take from that, other than that it's not about knowing stuff, it's about convincing someone else that you know stuff. Also I'm about to do a hardcore leetcode interview. Wish me luck. (I'm probably going to fail; I'm pretty great at programming but only average at leetcode.)
  - xlii 6mo ago
    Fingers crossed. One thing to keep in mind is that leetcode is testing (surprise) social anxiety. You can be a great engineer, terrific peer to have in the time when crisis hits but still fail at leetcode problem because someone is watching.
gombosg 6mo ago
I'm sorry for your experience, but loved the painting at the end... :)
- bigfishrunning 6mo ago
  The completely unrelated painting ;)
tmoertel 6mo ago
I'm sorry you had such a bad interviewing experience. You asked for feedback in your blog post, and since your blog doesn't allow comments, I hope you won't mind my responding here. You wrote something that I think is untrue of most tech companies, so I'd like to discuss it: > [As I and a friend spoke], I realised something: Three technical interviews went well, I was feeling confident going into the behavioural interview... This means that I'm heading into behavioural and HR contract stages with confidence in my performance thus far and my ability to excel at the role. And it means that I have the upper hand in salary and benefit negotiation. This is horrible for them. THEY NEED to shut me down and bring me down a few rungs before this step. And to edge me for 2 weeks (and counting...) after the supposed final round before I hear anything back. I suspect that approximately 0% of top tech firms are trying to tank your interview as a comp-negotiating tactic. For most of these firms, the biggest problem is finding people they want to hire. To find qualified people, they need to measure what applicants, like you, can actually do. And they can't get a good measurement when they sabotage your performance. Further, if they decide to hire you, they need you to feel good about the company, not hate it because of how you were maltreated. They want you to say yes to their offer, not rage quit the hiring pipeline. I'm not saying that there aren't bad companies or bad interviewers out there. Nor am I saying that you can't get into an interview where the other person is actually out to get you. It happens. Maybe it happened to you. What I'm trying to say is that if your mental model of the hiring process is that the company is probably going to sabatage your end-game interviews, you're probably going to be wrong most of the time and make some bad decisions. > What do you think? Was that a normal interview that I should have expected? I am in the wrong by posting this? Should I nuke my blog? Here's what I think. If you have a public blog, it's fair game at an interview. If you write mostly about data science stuff but you apply for a software engineering job, you ought to be prepared to explain the contrast. Understand that, for most top firms, hiring good people and getting them to stick is hard. Most employers will want some assurance that you are serious about the position you're applying for. If you send signals that you might want some other position, be prepared to get asked about those signals. And you got asked about those signals: > "How do we know we won't hire you and you'll try to transition to a data scientist?" You ought to be prepared for questions like these. For example, most interviewers would probably be satisfied with an answer like these: That's a great question. Data science is something I do for fun in my spare time. I don't want it to become my day job. I love software engineering and that's what I want to focus my career on. Or: That's an important question. Thanks for asking about it. I try to stay abreast of important trends in industry, and when AI and data became important in some of my past work, I put in some personal time to learn more about them. When I learn things, I often write about them on my blog to help me remember. My blog's just a learning tool, a memory aid, right? It's not a barometer of my career interests. If you want to know what my career interests are, let me be clear: I want to write software. Five years from now, I still want to be a software engineer. > Should I nuke my blog? I'd say no. But you should read your blog from the perspective of a firm that's considering you for a job and be prepared to explain away anything they might have concerns about. That's just my two cents. If you find anything in my comment helpful, great. If not, feel free to dismiss everything I've written. Best wishes on your job hunt.
givemeethekeys 6mo ago
Solid rant, mate! And a great blog, too!

by ossa-ma 6mo ago

quibono 6mo ago

Sorry to hear that, here I was thinking that a blog like this could only be a good signal and a jumping-off point in an interview. Oh well

xlii 6mo ago

Geez. Good one. Was in something similar lately. 10 weeks wasted and a shittiest feedback ever. These companies should be legally required to pay candidates for gauntlets they put them through.

ossa-ma 6mo ago
The lack of feedback is the worst part and is increasingly more common. Zero respect for the candidates time investment and propagates a terrible culture.
- whatever1 6mo ago
  Most of big-CO legal teams do not allow for feedback to be communicated to the candidates. They are afraid the candidates will sue base on that. That is not new.
  - _DeadFred_ 6mo ago
    Our entire system is getting so bogged down by things like this that it is ceasing to function. Lots of things that make sense individually but are breaking the previous social contract, or removing the grease that made things work.
    - joquarky 6mo ago
      Systems without slack are brittle.
  - lurking_swe 6mo ago
    They could at least allow hiring teams to send out a feedback email that highlights what the candidate did WELL, at a high level. This way the candidate gets some meaningful signal, while the company avoids the legal gray area of admitting why they rejected them. Just add a disclaimer like “unfortunately company policy prohibits us from explicitly mentioning why we chose another candidate.” But you’d need to actually care to take something like that into consideration so… ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
    - whatever1 6mo ago
      Have you ever talked to a lawyer? The only thing that they keep repeating is "shut your mouth".
      - randomNumber7 6mo ago
        Which is the right advise when you live in the current society.
        Gander5739 6mo ago
        Advice. (Yes, it's a compulsion; I can't help myself.)
- Otterly99 6mo ago
  Some jobs that I interviewed replied with an automated email saying that, if I wanted, I could ask for feedback. I always did and none of them replied... This somehow feels even more insulting.
IshKebab 6mo ago
Once I got really detailed feedback from an interview for a job I didn't get. It really took me by surprise! I didn't even have to ask. It was quite interesting too because the things they'd inferred about me - stuff that I had understood or not understood - were just plain wrong. I didn't get everything right, but some bits I did understand fine, they thought I didn't. I'm not sure what to take from that, other than that it's not about knowing stuff, it's about convincing someone else that you know stuff. Also I'm about to do a hardcore leetcode interview. Wish me luck. (I'm probably going to fail; I'm pretty great at programming but only average at leetcode.)
- xlii 6mo ago
  Fingers crossed. One thing to keep in mind is that leetcode is testing (surprise) social anxiety. You can be a great engineer, terrific peer to have in the time when crisis hits but still fail at leetcode problem because someone is watching.

gombosg 6mo ago

I'm sorry for your experience, but loved the painting at the end... :)

bigfishrunning 6mo ago
The completely unrelated painting ;)

tmoertel 6mo ago

I'm sorry you had such a bad interviewing experience. You asked for feedback in your blog post, and since your blog doesn't allow comments, I hope you won't mind my responding here. You wrote something that I think is untrue of most tech companies, so I'd like to discuss it: > [As I and a friend spoke], I realised something: Three technical interviews went well, I was feeling confident going into the behavioural interview... This means that I'm heading into behavioural and HR contract stages with confidence in my performance thus far and my ability to excel at the role. And it means that I have the upper hand in salary and benefit negotiation. This is horrible for them. THEY NEED to shut me down and bring me down a few rungs before this step. And to edge me for 2 weeks (and counting...) after the supposed final round before I hear anything back. I suspect that approximately 0% of top tech firms are trying to tank your interview as a comp-negotiating tactic. For most of these firms, the biggest problem is finding people they want to hire. To find qualified people, they need to measure what applicants, like you, can actually do. And they can't get a good measurement when they sabotage your performance. Further, if they decide to hire you, they need you to feel good about the company, not hate it because of how you were maltreated. They want you to say yes to their offer, not rage quit the hiring pipeline. I'm not saying that there aren't bad companies or bad interviewers out there. Nor am I saying that you can't get into an interview where the other person is actually out to get you. It happens. Maybe it happened to you. What I'm trying to say is that if your mental model of the hiring process is that the company is probably going to sabatage your end-game interviews, you're probably going to be wrong most of the time and make some bad decisions. > What do you think? Was that a normal interview that I should have expected? I am in the wrong by posting this? Should I nuke my blog? Here's what I think. If you have a public blog, it's fair game at an interview. If you write mostly about data science stuff but you apply for a software engineering job, you ought to be prepared to explain the contrast. Understand that, for most top firms, hiring good people and getting them to stick is hard. Most employers will want some assurance that you are serious about the position you're applying for. If you send signals that you might want some other position, be prepared to get asked about those signals. And you got asked about those signals: > "How do we know we won't hire you and you'll try to transition to a data scientist?" You ought to be prepared for questions like these. For example, most interviewers would probably be satisfied with an answer like these: That's a great question. Data science is something I do for fun in my spare time. I don't want it to become my day job. I love software engineering and that's what I want to focus my career on. Or: That's an important question. Thanks for asking about it. I try to stay abreast of important trends in industry, and when AI and data became important in some of my past work, I put in some personal time to learn more about them. When I learn things, I often write about them on my blog to help me remember. My blog's just a learning tool, a memory aid, right? It's not a barometer of my career interests. If you want to know what my career interests are, let me be clear: I want to write software. Five years from now, I still want to be a software engineer. > Should I nuke my blog? I'd say no. But you should read your blog from the perspective of a firm that's considering you for a job and be prepared to explain away anything they might have concerns about. That's just my two cents. If you find anything in my comment helpful, great. If not, feel free to dismiss everything I've written. Best wishes on your job hunt.

givemeethekeys 6mo ago

Solid rant, mate! And a great blog, too!