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IIRC Marcan mentioned something he found that had been deliberately put into the Mac boot loader that made booting alternative operating systems easier and perh

IIRC Marcan mentioned something he found that had been deliberately put into the Mac boot loader that made booting alternative operating systems easier and perhaps making it possible altogether.

jsheard 7mo ago
That's apparent enough from the fact that you don't need a jailbreak exploit to boot non-Apple-signed kernels on a Mac, unlike iPads with exactly the same silicon. They are intentionally configured differently.
- imglorp 7mo ago
  Why the locking difference on platforms? I so want to run my os on ipad and save it from the ewaste bin.
  - szmarczak 7mo ago
    iPads are cheaper than MacBooks and more popular. They'd rather prefer if you bought another one instead of using it indefinitely. The same with smartphones. The answer always has been: I like money!
    - walletdrainer 7mo ago
      This is a weird conspiracy theory because people don’t really do that with macs.
      - szmarczak 7mo ago
        iPads and MacBooks are architecturally different devices with different purposes (but soon the difference may vanish). People tend to upgrade their phones/tablets more often than their PCs/laptops. Macs aren't locked down because they are designed NOT to be locked down. You can write drivers for macOS (otherwise it couldn't compete with Windows or Linux) but not for iPadOS.
      - szmarczak 7mo ago
        That's weird response because people really did that with Macs. People used to run Windows (Boot Camp) on their Mac devices.
        walletdrainer 7mo ago
        There were approximately 0 people extending the lifespan of their Mac by running Windows on it.
        szmarczak 7mo ago
        The way how you were using Windows did not matter. There was no way how Apple could distinguish this use anyway. Apple did not know if you were using Windows to extend the lifespan or just needed Windows apps. If you're allowing Windows, there's no reason to lock the bootloader down since people could heavily modify Windows and use Linux on Windows anyway. Since Apple has moved onto arm, they don't need to lock it down, at least yet, because Windows is a no-go on arm, and it's slowly becoming AI slop anyway. There's only Linux but then if they locked the bootloader down they would distance themselves from the competition. And people do write drivers for macs. Meanwhile jailbreaking iOS or iPadOS has more use than doing anything you want on macOS. For example removing ads on Spotify, YT or running cracked apps or ebooks. Yes, you can do the same on macs, but you do not keep a Mac in your pocket. However if iPads and MacBooks become one thing, I'm pretty sure they're still be more restrictions.
        walletdrainer 7mo ago
        How did installing windows increase the lifespan of a MacBook? Earlier you said this: >iPads are cheaper than MacBooks and more popular. They'd rather prefer if you bought another one instead of using it indefinitely How does that work? People are still buying new MacBooks instead of using them indefinitely.
        szmarczak 7mo ago
        How does your question relate to "I so want to run my os"? You're assuming that people who want to run custom OS do only so to increase the lifespan. On Android that's definitely the case (more people do so to increase the lifespan than to hack apps), but the desktop market progresses slower than mobile in terms of software. I was running my Xiaomi Mi 6 for 7 years thanks to LineageOS, and it would've been longer if I hadn't dropped it the second time (the screen cracked, battery was 60% and repair wasn't worth it). Now I'm running Nothing Phone 2 am switching to LineageOS once the support goes out. Now try to do the same with Samsung. You can't. The bootloader is locked down since OneUI 8.0 and you can't do a thing about it, gotta buy a new one after security updates are gone. Phones are very cheap now (can get more expensive soon tho). For $200 you can get a very decent Android (Snapdragon 7s gen2, 8GB RAM, 256GB storage + other very nice stuff such as OIS, 144Hz etc.), buy a wireless display or cast to TV and use it as a workstation (obviously you need a wireless keyboard and a mouse). Office work? Web coding? Sure. Did that myself. Since we are focusing on MacBooks now... > People are still buying new MacBooks instead of using them indefinitely. I'm not hearing anyone with M1 or above switching to a new Mac yearly. People who switched to M-series were using their MacBooks for years. It seems Apple is happy with having Linux as an unofficial alternative on Macs. > How did installing windows increase the lifespan of a MacBook? Via Windows Updates? And Windows software doesn't usually require you to upgrade to the newest version possible (however many games started to require W11)? Try to install new Xcode on an older version of macOS, good luck.
signa11 7mo ago
xeno-kovah is responsible for that one. see the most excellent 39c3 video "asahi linux porting linux to apple silicon" for more information.
wpm 7mo ago
Yes, because if they didn't, the fact that macOS doesn't lock you down in a sandbox means that is more like the entire boot chain would've been jailbroken. The boot chain shared for the most part with iOS devices, where Apple 100% does not want "jailbreaks" because it means App Stores that they don't get to take 15-30% from. The happy path on the Mac was provided so the talent capable of booting Linux on it could take the happy path that hides all of the stuff Apple would rather not have a bunch of reverse engineers sniffing around.

IIRC Marcan mentioned something he found that had been deliberately put into the Mac boot loader that made booting alternative operating systems easier and perhaps making it possible altogether.

jsheard 7mo ago

That's apparent enough from the fact that you don't need a jailbreak exploit to boot non-Apple-signed kernels on a Mac, unlike iPads with exactly the same silicon. They are intentionally configured differently.

imglorp 7mo ago
Why the locking difference on platforms? I so want to run my os on ipad and save it from the ewaste bin.
- szmarczak 7mo ago
  iPads are cheaper than MacBooks and more popular. They'd rather prefer if you bought another one instead of using it indefinitely. The same with smartphones. The answer always has been: I like money!
  - walletdrainer 7mo ago
    This is a weird conspiracy theory because people don’t really do that with macs.
    - szmarczak 7mo ago
      iPads and MacBooks are architecturally different devices with different purposes (but soon the difference may vanish). People tend to upgrade their phones/tablets more often than their PCs/laptops. Macs aren't locked down because they are designed NOT to be locked down. You can write drivers for macOS (otherwise it couldn't compete with Windows or Linux) but not for iPadOS.
    - szmarczak 7mo ago
      That's weird response because people really did that with Macs. People used to run Windows (Boot Camp) on their Mac devices.
      - walletdrainer 7mo ago
        There were approximately 0 people extending the lifespan of their Mac by running Windows on it.
        szmarczak 7mo ago
        The way how you were using Windows did not matter. There was no way how Apple could distinguish this use anyway. Apple did not know if you were using Windows to extend the lifespan or just needed Windows apps. If you're allowing Windows, there's no reason to lock the bootloader down since people could heavily modify Windows and use Linux on Windows anyway. Since Apple has moved onto arm, they don't need to lock it down, at least yet, because Windows is a no-go on arm, and it's slowly becoming AI slop anyway. There's only Linux but then if they locked the bootloader down they would distance themselves from the competition. And people do write drivers for macs. Meanwhile jailbreaking iOS or iPadOS has more use than doing anything you want on macOS. For example removing ads on Spotify, YT or running cracked apps or ebooks. Yes, you can do the same on macs, but you do not keep a Mac in your pocket. However if iPads and MacBooks become one thing, I'm pretty sure they're still be more restrictions.
        walletdrainer 7mo ago
        How did installing windows increase the lifespan of a MacBook? Earlier you said this: >iPads are cheaper than MacBooks and more popular. They'd rather prefer if you bought another one instead of using it indefinitely How does that work? People are still buying new MacBooks instead of using them indefinitely.
        szmarczak 7mo ago
        How does your question relate to "I so want to run my os"? You're assuming that people who want to run custom OS do only so to increase the lifespan. On Android that's definitely the case (more people do so to increase the lifespan than to hack apps), but the desktop market progresses slower than mobile in terms of software. I was running my Xiaomi Mi 6 for 7 years thanks to LineageOS, and it would've been longer if I hadn't dropped it the second time (the screen cracked, battery was 60% and repair wasn't worth it). Now I'm running Nothing Phone 2 am switching to LineageOS once the support goes out. Now try to do the same with Samsung. You can't. The bootloader is locked down since OneUI 8.0 and you can't do a thing about it, gotta buy a new one after security updates are gone. Phones are very cheap now (can get more expensive soon tho). For $200 you can get a very decent Android (Snapdragon 7s gen2, 8GB RAM, 256GB storage + other very nice stuff such as OIS, 144Hz etc.), buy a wireless display or cast to TV and use it as a workstation (obviously you need a wireless keyboard and a mouse). Office work? Web coding? Sure. Did that myself. Since we are focusing on MacBooks now... > People are still buying new MacBooks instead of using them indefinitely. I'm not hearing anyone with M1 or above switching to a new Mac yearly. People who switched to M-series were using their MacBooks for years. It seems Apple is happy with having Linux as an unofficial alternative on Macs. > How did installing windows increase the lifespan of a MacBook? Via Windows Updates? And Windows software doesn't usually require you to upgrade to the newest version possible (however many games started to require W11)? Try to install new Xcode on an older version of macOS, good luck.

signa11 7mo ago

xeno-kovah is responsible for that one. see the most excellent 39c3 video "asahi linux porting linux to apple silicon" for more information.

wpm 7mo ago

Yes, because if they didn't, the fact that macOS doesn't lock you down in a sandbox means that is more like the entire boot chain would've been jailbroken. The boot chain shared for the most part with iOS devices, where Apple 100% does not want "jailbreaks" because it means App Stores that they don't get to take 15-30% from. The happy path on the Mac was provided so the talent capable of booting Linux on it could take the happy path that hides all of the stuff Apple would rather not have a bunch of reverse engineers sniffing around.