5 ms·

I find it funny that backend devs will do all this infrastructure work to support billions of real time messages and then frontend devs stomp all over it by mak

by nmilo 7mo ago

I find it funny that backend devs will do all this infrastructure work to support billions of real time messages and then frontend devs stomp all over it by making the app take 500MB of RAM and hundreds of ms to take basic actions.

ronsor 7mo ago
One runs on machines we pay for (= costs us money). Another runs on end users' machines (= costs them money).
- alecco 7mo ago
  But it affects user experience.
  - devmor 7mo ago
    As long as negative experience doesn’t meaningfully impact user monetization, there’s no business incentive for that type of company to care.
  - anon7000 7mo ago
    Backend performance issues can grind your system to a halt. It’s basically a requirement for Discord to work reliably. Front-end performance is not a hard requirement for most end users, unless the app is actually unusable. Discord isn’t that bad compared to some software I’ve used. You have to get beach balls on startup and complete UI freezes for people to really care. If it’s good enough for most people, shaving some MB off the memory usage or small number of ms off latency isn’t important to the business
- bloomca 7mo ago
  You can pay to have better/more machines, while you can't do the same with your clients
  - estimator7292 7mo ago
    But you can tell users their hardware isn't supported and to fuck off until they buy new hardware. Which is the norm.
tylerdane 7mo ago
It's a fair point. I think loss-aversion over React (Native) is to blame. Their current client stack is: Web: React Desktop: React + Electron Mobile: React Native + Native Their commitment to React on so many platforms makes it easy to accumulate bloat. Their need to support lower-level features means they can't avoid native code altogether. I wonder why they stick with it. My guess is they don't want to add more hires just for this problem Their 2018 commitment to RN: https://discord.com/blog/why-discord-is-sticking-with-react-native https://discord.com/blog/why-discord-is-sticking-with-react-... Their 2025 complications with it: https://discord.com/blog/supercharging-discord-mobile-our-journey-to-a-faster-app https://discord.com/blog/supercharging-discord-mobile-our-jo...
- nwienert 7mo ago
  Their native app actually feels surprisingly good, web less so, it's not a RN thing.
bloomca 7mo ago
You can't buy client performance, so it is just more visible. It's not like there are a lot of people with Rust/C++ back ends outside of some very critical pieces.
- saagarjha 7mo ago
  Sure you can, you hire people to improve it
  - bigyabai 7mo ago
    Well, no wonder everyone ships websites.
switz 7mo ago
I agree with you that we should care more about resource usage, but it's a false comparison. Backend devs control where their code runs, frontend devs don't. You can make more precise decisions when you have complete control over the environment. When you don't, you have to make trade-offs. In this case, universality (electron and javascript) for higher RAM usage. It doesn't seem to have slowed Discord's adoption rate. Even if they built their desktops apps in native code and UI, they'd have to build a JS website in parallel.
- troupo 7mo ago
  > Backend devs control where their code runs, frontend devs don't. This has nothing to do wih the fact that Discord is a bloated, slow monstrosity. > Even if they built their desktops apps in native code and UI, they'd have to build a JS website in parallel. Oh no. The impossibility of building a site that displays text and images
reassess_blind 7mo ago
The average Discord user does not care.
candiddevmike 7mo ago
Devs are probably running high end MBPs and don't get to experience the frontend on a potato
sourcegrift 7mo ago
Given how intelligent people are, I would not be surprised if this is by choice. They probably don't want poor pleba using their software anyway, just those with money to spare

by nmilo 7mo ago

ronsor 7mo ago

One runs on machines we pay for (= costs us money). Another runs on end users' machines (= costs them money).

alecco 7mo ago
But it affects user experience.
- devmor 7mo ago
  As long as negative experience doesn’t meaningfully impact user monetization, there’s no business incentive for that type of company to care.
- anon7000 7mo ago
  Backend performance issues can grind your system to a halt. It’s basically a requirement for Discord to work reliably. Front-end performance is not a hard requirement for most end users, unless the app is actually unusable. Discord isn’t that bad compared to some software I’ve used. You have to get beach balls on startup and complete UI freezes for people to really care. If it’s good enough for most people, shaving some MB off the memory usage or small number of ms off latency isn’t important to the business
bloomca 7mo ago
You can pay to have better/more machines, while you can't do the same with your clients
- estimator7292 7mo ago
  But you can tell users their hardware isn't supported and to fuck off until they buy new hardware. Which is the norm.

tylerdane 7mo ago

It's a fair point. I think loss-aversion over React (Native) is to blame. Their current client stack is: Web: React Desktop: React + Electron Mobile: React Native + Native Their commitment to React on so many platforms makes it easy to accumulate bloat. Their need to support lower-level features means they can't avoid native code altogether. I wonder why they stick with it. My guess is they don't want to add more hires just for this problem Their 2018 commitment to RN: https://discord.com/blog/why-discord-is-sticking-with-react-native https://discord.com/blog/why-discord-is-sticking-with-react-... Their 2025 complications with it: https://discord.com/blog/supercharging-discord-mobile-our-journey-to-a-faster-app https://discord.com/blog/supercharging-discord-mobile-our-jo...

nwienert 7mo ago
Their native app actually feels surprisingly good, web less so, it's not a RN thing.

bloomca 7mo ago

You can't buy client performance, so it is just more visible. It's not like there are a lot of people with Rust/C++ back ends outside of some very critical pieces.

saagarjha 7mo ago
Sure you can, you hire people to improve it
- bigyabai 7mo ago
  Well, no wonder everyone ships websites.

switz 7mo ago

I agree with you that we should care more about resource usage, but it's a false comparison. Backend devs control where their code runs, frontend devs don't. You can make more precise decisions when you have complete control over the environment. When you don't, you have to make trade-offs. In this case, universality (electron and javascript) for higher RAM usage. It doesn't seem to have slowed Discord's adoption rate. Even if they built their desktops apps in native code and UI, they'd have to build a JS website in parallel.

troupo 7mo ago
> Backend devs control where their code runs, frontend devs don't. This has nothing to do wih the fact that Discord is a bloated, slow monstrosity. > Even if they built their desktops apps in native code and UI, they'd have to build a JS website in parallel. Oh no. The impossibility of building a site that displays text and images

reassess_blind 7mo ago

The average Discord user does not care.

candiddevmike 7mo ago

Devs are probably running high end MBPs and don't get to experience the frontend on a potato

sourcegrift 7mo ago

Given how intelligent people are, I would not be surprised if this is by choice. They probably don't want poor pleba using their software anyway, just those with money to spare