6 ms·

The public needs to understand that tariffs aren't meant to punish other countries (which is what is being sold) - they are meant to change domestic behavior.

jqpabc123 7mo ago
They are meant to tax lower income people who spend a large percentage of their income on necessities. In other words, they are a regressive tax --- pure and simple.
- thijson 7mo ago
  They are a little bit like a sales tax, except only for things not made in this country.
  - g947o 7mo ago
    Like, at least 50% of the things you use every day, from phone and laptops to kitchen utensils.
    - Alupis 7mo ago
      For today, sure. People act like 365 days is long enough to change consumer spending habits, and onshore production facilities that took years to offshore. If tariffs are held strong, there will be two possible outcomes: 1) Domestic production will be increased (via American businesses as well as onshoring foreign businesses), providing jobs and ultimately lower-cost products 2) International tariffs will be decreased across the board - resulting in a more level field for American businesses to compete in foreign nations Few realize American goods have been tariffed internationally for decades, resulting in a difficult-or-impossible business climate for American businesses. The situation is akin to Wall Street's infamous short-term outcome favorability. Tariffs are a long-term game, and people have to be willing to trade some short-term outcomes for the long-term economic health of America and it's businesses (and jobs, wages, etc).
      - Aloisius 7mo ago
        > ultimately lower-cost products When has reduced competition ever resulted in lower-cost products? Even for goods we already mass produce, companies respond to tariffs of their competitor's goods by hiking their own prices up.
        Alupis 7mo ago
        Reduced competition is a near-term affect. Demand will remain constant (or increase) for goods, so businesses will open and compete over the long-term. In the future it will be cheaper to purchase domestically produced goods vs. import them from half a world away...
      - brodouevencode 7mo ago
        Not sure why you are getting downvoted - nothing you have said is incorrect. Given the parent comments my guess is that it's because you're speaking in purely economic terms and not grounded in political ideology.
fc417fc802 7mo ago
Sure, they work via changing domestic behavior. But the purpose of that change is what's important. They can be used to gently (as compared to sanctions) shift demand away from a particular country, or alternatively to apply pressure to a sector to bring it on shore.
- ivell 7mo ago
  > They can be used to gently (as compared to sanctions) shift demand away from a particular country That works when those countries are selectively tariffed while others are let off. Blindly applying tariffs to whatever satisfies the mood is not the way. > or alternatively to apply pressure to a sector to bring it on shore. For this to work, the cost of onshore production must be lower than the tariffed price. The inputs must be made cheaper and not tariffed. Again the US administration is not doing any of these strategically.
  - fc417fc802 7mo ago
    Agreed. I wasn't meaning to imply anything one way or the other about the current US tariff regime. > The inputs must be made cheaper and not tariffed. Not necessarily. It's presumably not as efficient, but you'd still expect the entire chain to head in the desired direction eventually.
- vjvjvjvjghv 7mo ago
  "Sure, they work via changing domestic behavior. But the purpose of that change is what's important. They can be used to gently (as compared to sanctions) shift demand away from a particular country, or alternatively to apply pressure to a sector to bring it on shore" I have talked to some purchasing people at my company and it seems it's going exactly the other way. The company is moving as much production as possible away from the US to serve the international market without paying for tariffs.
- brodouevencode 7mo ago
  > But the purpose of that change is what's important. Good point.
wvenable 7mo ago
That's the real intent of tariffs "in general". Trump's tariffs in particular, though, are specifically meant to punish / shake down other countries.
- CamperBob2 7mo ago
  And the industry leaders in our own country.
hackyhacky 7mo ago
> they are meant to change domestic behavior. What domestic behavior specifically? If they're supposed to encourage industrial development at home, they've failed on that front. Building new factories requires years of commitment and billions of dollars, but the current administration has shown no interest in actually investing in that development. Meanwhile, the raw materials that would be necessary for a factory are more expensive precisely because of the tariffs, making new industry even less likely. Finally, the very dubious legal ground on which the tariffs are based means that no one is sure they'll be around to the end of this administration, much less into the next, so there's little interest in adapting long-term plans to a temporary state of affairs. If they're supposed to encourage consumers to buy domestic, they've failed on that count too. Many goods simply are not available manufactured in the US (see above). If the tariffs were applied gradually and incrementally, maybe people would adapt, but from the consumer's mount of view, everything just gets more expensive, so what are they supposed to do? Again, applying tariffs to raw materials means that it's impossible for American businesses to undercut foreign imports even if they wanted to. Like everything from this administration, the tariff are an impulsive decision based on poor economic understanding and incompetent execution.
charcircuit 7mo ago
>aren't meant to punish other countries The purpose of a thing is what is does. If a tariff can be used to stop a war, then tariffs are meant as a strategic bargaining chips.

jqpabc123 7mo ago

They are meant to tax lower income people who spend a large percentage of their income on necessities. In other words, they are a regressive tax --- pure and simple.

thijson 7mo ago
They are a little bit like a sales tax, except only for things not made in this country.
- g947o 7mo ago
  Like, at least 50% of the things you use every day, from phone and laptops to kitchen utensils.
  - Alupis 7mo ago
    For today, sure. People act like 365 days is long enough to change consumer spending habits, and onshore production facilities that took years to offshore. If tariffs are held strong, there will be two possible outcomes: 1) Domestic production will be increased (via American businesses as well as onshoring foreign businesses), providing jobs and ultimately lower-cost products 2) International tariffs will be decreased across the board - resulting in a more level field for American businesses to compete in foreign nations Few realize American goods have been tariffed internationally for decades, resulting in a difficult-or-impossible business climate for American businesses. The situation is akin to Wall Street's infamous short-term outcome favorability. Tariffs are a long-term game, and people have to be willing to trade some short-term outcomes for the long-term economic health of America and it's businesses (and jobs, wages, etc).
    - Aloisius 7mo ago
      > ultimately lower-cost products When has reduced competition ever resulted in lower-cost products? Even for goods we already mass produce, companies respond to tariffs of their competitor's goods by hiking their own prices up.
      - Alupis 7mo ago
        Reduced competition is a near-term affect. Demand will remain constant (or increase) for goods, so businesses will open and compete over the long-term. In the future it will be cheaper to purchase domestically produced goods vs. import them from half a world away...
    - brodouevencode 7mo ago
      Not sure why you are getting downvoted - nothing you have said is incorrect. Given the parent comments my guess is that it's because you're speaking in purely economic terms and not grounded in political ideology.

fc417fc802 7mo ago

Sure, they work via changing domestic behavior. But the purpose of that change is what's important. They can be used to gently (as compared to sanctions) shift demand away from a particular country, or alternatively to apply pressure to a sector to bring it on shore.

ivell 7mo ago
> They can be used to gently (as compared to sanctions) shift demand away from a particular country That works when those countries are selectively tariffed while others are let off. Blindly applying tariffs to whatever satisfies the mood is not the way. > or alternatively to apply pressure to a sector to bring it on shore. For this to work, the cost of onshore production must be lower than the tariffed price. The inputs must be made cheaper and not tariffed. Again the US administration is not doing any of these strategically.
- fc417fc802 7mo ago
  Agreed. I wasn't meaning to imply anything one way or the other about the current US tariff regime. > The inputs must be made cheaper and not tariffed. Not necessarily. It's presumably not as efficient, but you'd still expect the entire chain to head in the desired direction eventually.
vjvjvjvjghv 7mo ago
"Sure, they work via changing domestic behavior. But the purpose of that change is what's important. They can be used to gently (as compared to sanctions) shift demand away from a particular country, or alternatively to apply pressure to a sector to bring it on shore" I have talked to some purchasing people at my company and it seems it's going exactly the other way. The company is moving as much production as possible away from the US to serve the international market without paying for tariffs.
brodouevencode 7mo ago
> But the purpose of that change is what's important. Good point.

wvenable 7mo ago

That's the real intent of tariffs "in general". Trump's tariffs in particular, though, are specifically meant to punish / shake down other countries.

CamperBob2 7mo ago
And the industry leaders in our own country.

hackyhacky 7mo ago

> they are meant to change domestic behavior. What domestic behavior specifically? If they're supposed to encourage industrial development at home, they've failed on that front. Building new factories requires years of commitment and billions of dollars, but the current administration has shown no interest in actually investing in that development. Meanwhile, the raw materials that would be necessary for a factory are more expensive precisely because of the tariffs, making new industry even less likely. Finally, the very dubious legal ground on which the tariffs are based means that no one is sure they'll be around to the end of this administration, much less into the next, so there's little interest in adapting long-term plans to a temporary state of affairs. If they're supposed to encourage consumers to buy domestic, they've failed on that count too. Many goods simply are not available manufactured in the US (see above). If the tariffs were applied gradually and incrementally, maybe people would adapt, but from the consumer's mount of view, everything just gets more expensive, so what are they supposed to do? Again, applying tariffs to raw materials means that it's impossible for American businesses to undercut foreign imports even if they wanted to. Like everything from this administration, the tariff are an impulsive decision based on poor economic understanding and incompetent execution.

charcircuit 7mo ago

>aren't meant to punish other countries The purpose of a thing is what is does. If a tariff can be used to stop a war, then tariffs are meant as a strategic bargaining chips.