7 ms·

Or do you hate that their politics don't align with yours?

by diggyhole 7mo ago

estearum 7mo ago
Nah, I don't even know what Garry's politics are. I hate that there's so much money in politics in general.
- diggyhole 7mo ago
  Fair enough.
shimman 7mo ago
Everyone should hate people that believe in undemocratic principles.
- CamperBob2 7mo ago
  Hot take: what has democracy done for us lately? Besides re-electing Donald Trump? If something can't go on forever, it will eventually stop. That applies to any system that gives stupid people the same political voice as the rest of the electorate. I mean, it seems kind of obvious, doesn't it?
  - amarcheschi 7mo ago
    Ask yourself which class can gain something by having trump as president rather than any other democrat (it's not the working class)
    - CamperBob2 7mo ago
      Exactly. So why'd the "working class" vote for him?
      - amarcheschi 7mo ago
        Because the ones owning social medias, newspapers (and whatnot) pushed heavily for it
        CamperBob2 7mo ago
        And why did they give up their agency to these shadowy media oligarchs...? Answer: because they're stupid. The ones who weren't stupid were impossible to herd to the polls, or at least a lot more difficult. As a result they were outnumbered. Any system that removes the influences you cite will leave the same stupid voters in place, ready to fall for the next con man who comes along. The problem isn't the money. The problem is the power. I'm tired of giving stupid people so much power over my life.
        johnnyanmac 7mo ago
        >why did they give up their agency to these shadowy media oligarchs decades tearing down education is paying its dues. Once again, from the people who are making you feel like democracy isn't working. >I'm tired of giving stupid people so much power over my life. If power is money, boomers still have a lot of power. And they leveraged politics their whole lives to benefit them (even if destruction of the younger generation is a side effect) If power is votes, then millenials should be the bloc in charge now... but we still had worse turnout than boomers. That really says something.
        CamperBob2 7mo ago
        I disagree that education had any meaningful part to play. It's true that less-educated people were more inclined to vote for Trump, but it's also true that we got all the "education" about Trump between 2016 and 2020 that anyone should have needed. You can fix ignorance with education, but you can't fix stupidity.
        johnnyanmac 7mo ago
        >we got all the "education" about Trump between 2016 and 2020 that anyone should have needed. Well the "real" cause is economy. Trump had a strong economy in term 1 until COVID. If you weren't affected by the China trade war (and many in the red states arent), you could ignore the day to day politics and think "yeah Trump is great!" But "economy" is too generic, and I feel that phenomenon is more attributed to "ignorance".And the comfortability to remain ignorant and fall for the spin telling you "things are good". That all feels to stem from education. Is ignorance stupidity? Sometimes. They go hand in hand.
  - johnnyanmac 7mo ago
    >what has democracy done for us lately? Besides re-electing Donald Trump? You have the order backwards. This is their exact strategy; spend decades breaking government then have the breakers say "see? government is broken!". Lack of functioning democracy got us Donald Trump. Why do you think this year they are so gung ho on trying to disenfranchise voters for a midterm? Because they know they are cooked if democracy starts to work again. If nothing else, Mamdami's 6 weeks show exactly how a "government that works for its people" can work. Let's keep pushing for that.
saubeidl 7mo ago
Their very existence doesn't align with my politics, or any decent person's politics for that matter.
- pbreit 7mo ago
  Smart, successful people offering products and services that lots of people want does not align with your politics? What are your politics?
  - saubeidl 7mo ago
    People extracting value from labor to enrich themselves at the expense of society and then using those riches to further corrupt society, to the point where a few dudes own most of the country does not align with my politics. That's why I'm a socialist and I would invite anyone who thinks things might not be going in the right direction to consider that as well.
  - johnnyanmac 7mo ago
    >What are your politics? how about not protecting child diddlers as a bare bones start? That's not even the "on the ground" bare minimum; we're still stuck in the hole. But let's try to meet 1% of the way first and take baby steps, okay?
micromacrofoot 7mo ago
it's that their money buys outsized influence and erodes the concept of democracy
johnnyanmac 7mo ago
I hate that their politic's explicit goal is to make my, yours, and everyone else's lives actively worse. Government is not a business. We're not getting better healthcare, more and better jobs, more efficient transportation, better city infrastructure, nor more houses. We aren't even getting the cool things shown in cyberpunk dystopias. Hell, we can't even ask for them to follow the law these days. Why would I want to support them getting into politics? There's a difference betweeen them having different thoughts on how fund, say, self drving cars (which I'm not a fan of) and then all of that above.

Or do you hate that their politics don't align with yours?

estearum 7mo ago

Nah, I don't even know what Garry's politics are. I hate that there's so much money in politics in general.

diggyhole 7mo ago
Fair enough.

shimman 7mo ago

Everyone should hate people that believe in undemocratic principles.

CamperBob2 7mo ago
Hot take: what has democracy done for us lately? Besides re-electing Donald Trump? If something can't go on forever, it will eventually stop. That applies to any system that gives stupid people the same political voice as the rest of the electorate. I mean, it seems kind of obvious, doesn't it?
- amarcheschi 7mo ago
  Ask yourself which class can gain something by having trump as president rather than any other democrat (it's not the working class)
  - CamperBob2 7mo ago
    Exactly. So why'd the "working class" vote for him?
    - amarcheschi 7mo ago
      Because the ones owning social medias, newspapers (and whatnot) pushed heavily for it
      - CamperBob2 7mo ago
        And why did they give up their agency to these shadowy media oligarchs...? Answer: because they're stupid. The ones who weren't stupid were impossible to herd to the polls, or at least a lot more difficult. As a result they were outnumbered. Any system that removes the influences you cite will leave the same stupid voters in place, ready to fall for the next con man who comes along. The problem isn't the money. The problem is the power. I'm tired of giving stupid people so much power over my life.
        johnnyanmac 7mo ago
        >why did they give up their agency to these shadowy media oligarchs decades tearing down education is paying its dues. Once again, from the people who are making you feel like democracy isn't working. >I'm tired of giving stupid people so much power over my life. If power is money, boomers still have a lot of power. And they leveraged politics their whole lives to benefit them (even if destruction of the younger generation is a side effect) If power is votes, then millenials should be the bloc in charge now... but we still had worse turnout than boomers. That really says something.
        CamperBob2 7mo ago
        I disagree that education had any meaningful part to play. It's true that less-educated people were more inclined to vote for Trump, but it's also true that we got all the "education" about Trump between 2016 and 2020 that anyone should have needed. You can fix ignorance with education, but you can't fix stupidity.
        johnnyanmac 7mo ago
        >we got all the "education" about Trump between 2016 and 2020 that anyone should have needed. Well the "real" cause is economy. Trump had a strong economy in term 1 until COVID. If you weren't affected by the China trade war (and many in the red states arent), you could ignore the day to day politics and think "yeah Trump is great!" But "economy" is too generic, and I feel that phenomenon is more attributed to "ignorance".And the comfortability to remain ignorant and fall for the spin telling you "things are good". That all feels to stem from education. Is ignorance stupidity? Sometimes. They go hand in hand.
- johnnyanmac 7mo ago
  >what has democracy done for us lately? Besides re-electing Donald Trump? You have the order backwards. This is their exact strategy; spend decades breaking government then have the breakers say "see? government is broken!". Lack of functioning democracy got us Donald Trump. Why do you think this year they are so gung ho on trying to disenfranchise voters for a midterm? Because they know they are cooked if democracy starts to work again. If nothing else, Mamdami's 6 weeks show exactly how a "government that works for its people" can work. Let's keep pushing for that.

saubeidl 7mo ago

Their very existence doesn't align with my politics, or any decent person's politics for that matter.

pbreit 7mo ago
Smart, successful people offering products and services that lots of people want does not align with your politics? What are your politics?
- saubeidl 7mo ago
  People extracting value from labor to enrich themselves at the expense of society and then using those riches to further corrupt society, to the point where a few dudes own most of the country does not align with my politics. That's why I'm a socialist and I would invite anyone who thinks things might not be going in the right direction to consider that as well.
- johnnyanmac 7mo ago
  >What are your politics? how about not protecting child diddlers as a bare bones start? That's not even the "on the ground" bare minimum; we're still stuck in the hole. But let's try to meet 1% of the way first and take baby steps, okay?

micromacrofoot 7mo ago

it's that their money buys outsized influence and erodes the concept of democracy

johnnyanmac 7mo ago

I hate that their politic's explicit goal is to make my, yours, and everyone else's lives actively worse. Government is not a business. We're not getting better healthcare, more and better jobs, more efficient transportation, better city infrastructure, nor more houses. We aren't even getting the cool things shown in cyberpunk dystopias. Hell, we can't even ask for them to follow the law these days. Why would I want to support them getting into politics? There's a difference betweeen them having different thoughts on how fund, say, self drving cars (which I'm not a fan of) and then all of that above.