6 ms·

I work at Grist, the "tableur collaboratif" (collaborative spreadsheet) listed on the La Suite homepage. We're in the interesting situation of being both a NYC-

I work at Grist, the "tableur collaboratif" (collaborative spreadsheet) listed on the La Suite homepage. We're in the interesting situation of being both a NYC-based company, and open source software the French gov has adopted and is helping to develop. Grist is mostly a node backend. So it is a complicated story. The key is having code the gov can review and trust and run it on sovereign infrastructure. Grist https://www.getgrist.com/ https://www.getgrist.com/ A write-up of how the French gov uses it https://interoperable-europe.ec.europa.eu/collection/open-source-observatory-osor/news/grist-joins-suite-numerique-public-administration https://interoperable-europe.ec.europa.eu/collection/open-so...

deleted 8mo ago
[deleted]
sequoia 8mo ago
wow it reminds me of Microsoft Access, a great piece of software in terms of rapidly building an application! Does grist have forms?
- flowerlad 8mo ago
  If you want forms try https://visualdb.com/ https://visualdb.com/ it is another tool that aims to be Microsoft Access
  - mkl 8mo ago
    Not open source though?
    - flowerlad 8mo ago
      Right but it is cheaper than open source products if you self-host. Most open source products in this space, including grist, are only partially open source.
      - paulfitz 8mo ago
        [grist employee here] Grist forms are open source and were used to keep the toilets clean at FOSDEM just a few days ago https://fosstodon.org/@grist/116001932837956733 https://fosstodon.org/@grist/116001932837956733 Everything you see in our standard docker image is open source. Yes, you can enable and pay for enterprise features too.
        lateforwork 8mo ago
        It is weird that your enterprise features are not self-hostable even if a customer pays. I understand if some features are not open source, but why make it not self-hostable? Self-hosting is a requirement for confidential data.
        paulfitz 8mo ago
        The enterprise features are self-hostable. Look at "your servers" on the pricing page for Grist. Individuals (and orgs with < $1 million in annual income) quality for free activation keys btw.
  - scientism 8mo ago
    https://nocodb.com/ https://nocodb.com/ is an open source alternative.
    - lateforwork 8mo ago
      It has data corruption issues, see https://visualdb.com/blog/concurrencycontrol/ https://visualdb.com/blog/concurrencycontrol/
- dylan604 8mo ago
  I'm not an MS dev type, but I've often seen these forms questions. What made their forms so easy, or more in general what is so complicated about forms that this was even a tool so many liked?
  - inanutshellus 8mo ago
    With Access, a business doing data entry could -- with a business user not a software engineer -- craft a Form and voila, easy onboarding to train new employees instead of filling out sheets of paper and filing them.
  - znhll 8mo ago
    MS Access was on its way out by the time I started working in software, but the simplest explanation I can give about why the "forms" question is this, let's say you're a business person and...: * You have a huge Excel document that's basically a DB. (What Access kinda was) * You want users to interact with said data document, i.e add record, find/query record(s), edit records * You add a "form" for users to do just that. You can also add a "login" form to give some users more permissions. It's basically if you could turn a SQlite file into a low-coded desktop app.
    - p_ing 8mo ago
      Access is an FE for db — JET Red, specifically. JET Blue aka ESE is currently used by products like Active Directory and Exchange.
  - KellyCriterion 8mo ago
    Access biggest advantage by far was that you could share the file on a network drive and having multiple people accessing it: You didnt need any type of complex backup procedure. In case of failure, just copy-over the old file from yesterday - such simple solutions are pure gold for SME without any big IT department
- gpm 8mo ago
  Form support is touted on the homepage: https://www.getgrist.com/forms/ https://www.getgrist.com/forms/ For what it's worth, which isn't much because this is probably outdated: I remember trying grist a few years ago and leaving mildly unimpressed with form support (I think because I was hoping to have image upload in the forms and that wasn't supported yet).
  - paulfitz 8mo ago
    Grist forms support uploads since 2025 https://github.com/gristlabs/grist-core/pull/1655 https://github.com/gristlabs/grist-core/pull/1655 Since it is relevant here: support for uploads was code written by a French contributor, and reviewed by a developer working for the French gov (ANCT/DINUM) and a developer working for Grist Labs. Grist Labs has since maintained and improved on it. The forms feature itself was inspired by an integration built by Camille Legeron at ANCT.
mentalgear 8mo ago
Kudos, Grist is great ! Super features, quite seamless only the UI could be more modern (or user stylesheet customizable) if you get to it.
- paulfitz 8mo ago
  Thanks! Fair about styling :). You can bring your own stylesheet https://support.getgrist.com/self-managed/#how-do-i-customize-styling https://support.getgrist.com/self-managed/#how-do-i-customiz...
yunnpp 8mo ago
Your position is fantastic because it immediately puts to death all of that nationalistic nonsense about the EU becoming "anti-American" by enforcing privacy laws on US Big Tech etc, when in fact they are just protecting their citizens' rights against unethical business models regardless of origin. I might be naive, but your company to me represents a win for free/open software and cross-country collaboration. That being said, I should ask: to what extent do you see being US-based an advantage or a problem in the current state of things? For example, in regards to exports controls, or any other such thing that may potentially limit your business scope depending on $current_admin.
- jesterson 8mo ago
  > in fact they are just protecting their citizens' rights against unethical business models regardless of origin Would you elaborate how this "in fact" is "protecting their citizens' rights"? Very curious to know.
  - estimator7292 8mo ago
    Microsoft, Google, et al very famously spy on everything you do and have no compunctions about handing that data to the US government, regardless of whether the person is a US citizen. Take this idea one step further. Microsoft, Google, et al also snoop on what foreign governments do with their software and report back to USGov.
    - Aurornis 8mo ago
      > and have no compunctions about handing that data to the US government, Every government can and will compel companies within their jurisdiction to hand over data for legal cases. Don’t think that this is a uniquely American property. If your data sits on servers within the control of any company that operates in a country, that country can and will apply legal pressure upon those companies to extract the data.
      - SideburnsOfDoom 8mo ago

deleted 8mo ago

[deleted]

sequoia 8mo ago

wow it reminds me of Microsoft Access, a great piece of software in terms of rapidly building an application! Does grist have forms?

flowerlad 8mo ago
If you want forms try https://visualdb.com/ https://visualdb.com/ it is another tool that aims to be Microsoft Access
- mkl 8mo ago
  Not open source though?
  - flowerlad 8mo ago
    Right but it is cheaper than open source products if you self-host. Most open source products in this space, including grist, are only partially open source.
    - paulfitz 8mo ago
      [grist employee here] Grist forms are open source and were used to keep the toilets clean at FOSDEM just a few days ago https://fosstodon.org/@grist/116001932837956733 https://fosstodon.org/@grist/116001932837956733 Everything you see in our standard docker image is open source. Yes, you can enable and pay for enterprise features too.
      - lateforwork 8mo ago
        It is weird that your enterprise features are not self-hostable even if a customer pays. I understand if some features are not open source, but why make it not self-hostable? Self-hosting is a requirement for confidential data.
        paulfitz 8mo ago
        The enterprise features are self-hostable. Look at "your servers" on the pricing page for Grist. Individuals (and orgs with < $1 million in annual income) quality for free activation keys btw.
- scientism 8mo ago
  https://nocodb.com/ https://nocodb.com/ is an open source alternative.
  - lateforwork 8mo ago
    It has data corruption issues, see https://visualdb.com/blog/concurrencycontrol/ https://visualdb.com/blog/concurrencycontrol/
dylan604 8mo ago
I'm not an MS dev type, but I've often seen these forms questions. What made their forms so easy, or more in general what is so complicated about forms that this was even a tool so many liked?
- inanutshellus 8mo ago
  With Access, a business doing data entry could -- with a business user not a software engineer -- craft a Form and voila, easy onboarding to train new employees instead of filling out sheets of paper and filing them.
- znhll 8mo ago
  MS Access was on its way out by the time I started working in software, but the simplest explanation I can give about why the "forms" question is this, let's say you're a business person and...: * You have a huge Excel document that's basically a DB. (What Access kinda was) * You want users to interact with said data document, i.e add record, find/query record(s), edit records * You add a "form" for users to do just that. You can also add a "login" form to give some users more permissions. It's basically if you could turn a SQlite file into a low-coded desktop app.
  - p_ing 8mo ago
    Access is an FE for db — JET Red, specifically. JET Blue aka ESE is currently used by products like Active Directory and Exchange.
- KellyCriterion 8mo ago
  Access biggest advantage by far was that you could share the file on a network drive and having multiple people accessing it: You didnt need any type of complex backup procedure. In case of failure, just copy-over the old file from yesterday - such simple solutions are pure gold for SME without any big IT department
gpm 8mo ago
Form support is touted on the homepage: https://www.getgrist.com/forms/ https://www.getgrist.com/forms/ For what it's worth, which isn't much because this is probably outdated: I remember trying grist a few years ago and leaving mildly unimpressed with form support (I think because I was hoping to have image upload in the forms and that wasn't supported yet).
- paulfitz 8mo ago
  Grist forms support uploads since 2025 https://github.com/gristlabs/grist-core/pull/1655 https://github.com/gristlabs/grist-core/pull/1655 Since it is relevant here: support for uploads was code written by a French contributor, and reviewed by a developer working for the French gov (ANCT/DINUM) and a developer working for Grist Labs. Grist Labs has since maintained and improved on it. The forms feature itself was inspired by an integration built by Camille Legeron at ANCT.

mentalgear 8mo ago

Kudos, Grist is great ! Super features, quite seamless only the UI could be more modern (or user stylesheet customizable) if you get to it.

paulfitz 8mo ago
Thanks! Fair about styling :). You can bring your own stylesheet https://support.getgrist.com/self-managed/#how-do-i-customize-styling https://support.getgrist.com/self-managed/#how-do-i-customiz...

yunnpp 8mo ago

Your position is fantastic because it immediately puts to death all of that nationalistic nonsense about the EU becoming "anti-American" by enforcing privacy laws on US Big Tech etc, when in fact they are just protecting their citizens' rights against unethical business models regardless of origin. I might be naive, but your company to me represents a win for free/open software and cross-country collaboration. That being said, I should ask: to what extent do you see being US-based an advantage or a problem in the current state of things? For example, in regards to exports controls, or any other such thing that may potentially limit your business scope depending on $current_admin.

jesterson 8mo ago
> in fact they are just protecting their citizens' rights against unethical business models regardless of origin Would you elaborate how this "in fact" is "protecting their citizens' rights"? Very curious to know.
- estimator7292 8mo ago
  Microsoft, Google, et al very famously spy on everything you do and have no compunctions about handing that data to the US government, regardless of whether the person is a US citizen. Take this idea one step further. Microsoft, Google, et al also snoop on what foreign governments do with their software and report back to USGov.
  - Aurornis 8mo ago
    > and have no compunctions about handing that data to the US government, Every government can and will compel companies within their jurisdiction to hand over data for legal cases. Don’t think that this is a uniquely American property. If your data sits on servers within the control of any company that operates in a country, that country can and will apply legal pressure upon those companies to extract the data.
    - SideburnsOfDoom 8mo ago