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Knowing what you do now, with the memories of the terrible bugs you had to work through due to Chrome / OSX, would you still choose HTML5 over other cross-platf

by tayl0r 14y ago

Knowing what you do now, with the memories of the terrible bugs you had to work through due to Chrome / OSX, would you still choose HTML5 over other cross-platform game engines like Unity?

mikeknoop 14y ago
A recent blog post by OP: http://ektomarch.com/blog/?p=36 http://ektomarch.com/blog/?p=36
fiblye 14y ago
If javascript could run outside of the browser, I'd use it for everything. Javascript was nothing but pure bliss to work with, but the browsers were hell. Overall I know I'm definitely going to keep making short, simple games with javascript because it's a wonderful tool for the job. Long-term projects are a bit risky due to browser issues, so this'll probably be my last huge game with the language (sadly). If you're planning on doing a 2D game, javascript is a great language. Flash would still be "best" at this point in time due to all the support and speed at which you can create something, but, in a way, the problem solving and brain wracking is what makes development fun. Unity's something I've been looking into for a while now, so it's a possibility for future projects. The OS X issues have been screwing me over inside of outside of the browser. Performance dropped like a rock after Snow Leopard, so the real question is whether or not I'll continue using OS X.
- epaik 14y ago
  I couldn't agree with you more. It's really fun to hack a game together in Javascript. I tried out JS + HTML5 two Ludum Dares ago and managed to create something fun within 72 hours[1]. The biggest issue I had at the time was dealing with cross-browser compatibility issues. Although my game would run flawlessly on Chrome, every other browser had at least one issue. I've been meaning to get around to fixing it up, but it's not much fun debugging browser compatibility weirdness... I suspect most browsers have improved a lot in the time since then. I'd like to use Javascript for another game soon; I really like the language, despite its rough edges. [1]http://ekun.nukenine.com/two/game.html http://ekun.nukenine.com/two/game.html
- a1k0n 14y ago
  > If javascript could run outside of the browser, I'd use it for everything. node.js?
  - MartinCron 14y ago
    I think he meant javascript running client-side outside the browser. The closest analog I can think of is ActionScript in Adobe Flash/Air/Flex, but that's not a mast I would lash myself to right now.
    - jakejake 14y ago
      As somebody who is stuck for the foreseeable future maintaining a huge AIR app I resemble that comment! It's kinda a drag though because AIR actually provides a fantastic cross-platform solution for desktop apps. Even thought they are in ActionScript, it's extremely similar writing Javascript apps that have model binding. I feel like I've tried every cross platform environment from AIR to Titanium to Java/QT to RealBasic, to Mono and none of them are quite as easy and predictable to get running as an AIR app. I guess going with straight-up C would be better but nobody on my team has that kind of experience. Anyway, probably off topic rant, but I think AIR would be a reasonable choice for a desktop game. The main problem with it right now is that it feels like it's gone out of favor and everybody is abandoning the platform.
      - mauriciob 14y ago
        I have developed a Flash "library" for a web application and I really liked it, but I could never do much in Flash because creating a UI is a pain. AIR is a great idea, but it would be way better (for me, at least) if they incorporated a decent HTML/CSS rendering engine that had the same potential as the ones we see on modern browsers.
      - MartinCron 14y ago
        The main problem with it right now is that it feels like it's gone out of favor and everybody is abandoning the platform I totally agree. I actually dabbled in making AIR apps a few years ago and found it just great. It's really the lack of access to the iOS platform that killed AIR for me.
- doublerebel 14y ago
  JS does run outside of the browser, many people are creating games on several platforms. Appcelerator's keynotes this morning at Codestrong included an OpenGL ES wrapper for Appcelerator. Exciting times for JS.
  - fiblye 14y ago
    I tried Appcelerator's Titanium and the performance was never good enough. Not sure why. I really do look forward to a future of desktop javascript, though.
- AdamTReineke 14y ago
  On the language comments - Have you looked into any higher level languages that compile to JavaScript, such as the newly released TypeScript? It is a superset of JavaScript with static typing and structural types. [Disclaimer: I was a test intern on the TypeScript team.] You also say this is the last huge game with JS. Why is that?
  - fiblye 14y ago
    I've glanced over some Coffeescript, but I'm probably one of the few people on earth who just finds it ugly. Typescript I've never really looked into. What are its advantages over vanilla Javascript? And the biggest reason is because I can't trust the browsers. They run in a fragile environment that can easily be destroyed by a single update. For example, Chrome refuses to run Subbania unless it's installed as an extension because it directly modifies the pixel contents of the screen; Firefox doesn't. However, the way Chrome forces me to break up my code for "security" reasons also resulted in Firefox not reading keyboard input, which is why I provided separate HTML files for each browser. I'm sure there's some better way of handling it, but I just went with the simplest and most obvious solution.
    - AdamTReineke 14y ago
      I have a Java background, so the addition of typechecking and structural types (classes, interfaces, inheritance) without losing the JS syntax (benefit of being a superset of JS) made TypeScript a pure joy to use to dev JS apps.
- sesteel 14y ago
  I don't know if you've looked at it, but I'm pretty sure Unity allows you to use Javascript.
  - v21 14y ago
    It's not really Javascript though, it's just C# that looks like Javascript and is called Javascript.
- undergroundhero 14y ago
  I'm working full time on a game development project in Unity. I have nothing but good things to say about it. The community is great, and our development would take twice the time without community-created tools like NGUI and PlayMaker. Unity 4 will address some major irks of mine (esp. animation handling), and a new UI engine is down the road. Its Javascript support is probably what's drawing you to the engine though (I use C#).
  - tayl0r 14y ago
    I use Unity too. Even for 2d I think it is the best cross platform game engine if you don't mind spending some money. The latest Rovio 2d physics game even uses it. I used to be all about HTML5 but after a while I realized that I don't like javascript and I hate dealing with browser quirks. C# Unity is where it's at.
- reedhedges 14y ago
  Would you use a library or framework that dealt with some of the browser issues? If so, what kinds of things would you be looking for in such a framework?

by tayl0r 14y ago

Knowing what you do now, with the memories of the terrible bugs you had to work through due to Chrome / OSX, would you still choose HTML5 over other cross-platform game engines like Unity?

mikeknoop 14y ago

A recent blog post by OP: http://ektomarch.com/blog/?p=36 http://ektomarch.com/blog/?p=36

fiblye 14y ago

If javascript could run outside of the browser, I'd use it for everything. Javascript was nothing but pure bliss to work with, but the browsers were hell. Overall I know I'm definitely going to keep making short, simple games with javascript because it's a wonderful tool for the job. Long-term projects are a bit risky due to browser issues, so this'll probably be my last huge game with the language (sadly). If you're planning on doing a 2D game, javascript is a great language. Flash would still be "best" at this point in time due to all the support and speed at which you can create something, but, in a way, the problem solving and brain wracking is what makes development fun. Unity's something I've been looking into for a while now, so it's a possibility for future projects. The OS X issues have been screwing me over inside of outside of the browser. Performance dropped like a rock after Snow Leopard, so the real question is whether or not I'll continue using OS X.

epaik 14y ago
I couldn't agree with you more. It's really fun to hack a game together in Javascript. I tried out JS + HTML5 two Ludum Dares ago and managed to create something fun within 72 hours[1]. The biggest issue I had at the time was dealing with cross-browser compatibility issues. Although my game would run flawlessly on Chrome, every other browser had at least one issue. I've been meaning to get around to fixing it up, but it's not much fun debugging browser compatibility weirdness... I suspect most browsers have improved a lot in the time since then. I'd like to use Javascript for another game soon; I really like the language, despite its rough edges. [1]http://ekun.nukenine.com/two/game.html http://ekun.nukenine.com/two/game.html
a1k0n 14y ago
> If javascript could run outside of the browser, I'd use it for everything. node.js?
- MartinCron 14y ago
  I think he meant javascript running client-side outside the browser. The closest analog I can think of is ActionScript in Adobe Flash/Air/Flex, but that's not a mast I would lash myself to right now.
  - jakejake 14y ago
    As somebody who is stuck for the foreseeable future maintaining a huge AIR app I resemble that comment! It's kinda a drag though because AIR actually provides a fantastic cross-platform solution for desktop apps. Even thought they are in ActionScript, it's extremely similar writing Javascript apps that have model binding. I feel like I've tried every cross platform environment from AIR to Titanium to Java/QT to RealBasic, to Mono and none of them are quite as easy and predictable to get running as an AIR app. I guess going with straight-up C would be better but nobody on my team has that kind of experience. Anyway, probably off topic rant, but I think AIR would be a reasonable choice for a desktop game. The main problem with it right now is that it feels like it's gone out of favor and everybody is abandoning the platform.
    - mauriciob 14y ago
      I have developed a Flash "library" for a web application and I really liked it, but I could never do much in Flash because creating a UI is a pain. AIR is a great idea, but it would be way better (for me, at least) if they incorporated a decent HTML/CSS rendering engine that had the same potential as the ones we see on modern browsers.
    - MartinCron 14y ago
      The main problem with it right now is that it feels like it's gone out of favor and everybody is abandoning the platform I totally agree. I actually dabbled in making AIR apps a few years ago and found it just great. It's really the lack of access to the iOS platform that killed AIR for me.
doublerebel 14y ago
JS does run outside of the browser, many people are creating games on several platforms. Appcelerator's keynotes this morning at Codestrong included an OpenGL ES wrapper for Appcelerator. Exciting times for JS.
- fiblye 14y ago
  I tried Appcelerator's Titanium and the performance was never good enough. Not sure why. I really do look forward to a future of desktop javascript, though.
AdamTReineke 14y ago
On the language comments - Have you looked into any higher level languages that compile to JavaScript, such as the newly released TypeScript? It is a superset of JavaScript with static typing and structural types. [Disclaimer: I was a test intern on the TypeScript team.] You also say this is the last huge game with JS. Why is that?
- fiblye 14y ago
  I've glanced over some Coffeescript, but I'm probably one of the few people on earth who just finds it ugly. Typescript I've never really looked into. What are its advantages over vanilla Javascript? And the biggest reason is because I can't trust the browsers. They run in a fragile environment that can easily be destroyed by a single update. For example, Chrome refuses to run Subbania unless it's installed as an extension because it directly modifies the pixel contents of the screen; Firefox doesn't. However, the way Chrome forces me to break up my code for "security" reasons also resulted in Firefox not reading keyboard input, which is why I provided separate HTML files for each browser. I'm sure there's some better way of handling it, but I just went with the simplest and most obvious solution.
  - AdamTReineke 14y ago
    I have a Java background, so the addition of typechecking and structural types (classes, interfaces, inheritance) without losing the JS syntax (benefit of being a superset of JS) made TypeScript a pure joy to use to dev JS apps.
sesteel 14y ago
I don't know if you've looked at it, but I'm pretty sure Unity allows you to use Javascript.
- v21 14y ago
  It's not really Javascript though, it's just C# that looks like Javascript and is called Javascript.
undergroundhero 14y ago
I'm working full time on a game development project in Unity. I have nothing but good things to say about it. The community is great, and our development would take twice the time without community-created tools like NGUI and PlayMaker. Unity 4 will address some major irks of mine (esp. animation handling), and a new UI engine is down the road. Its Javascript support is probably what's drawing you to the engine though (I use C#).
- tayl0r 14y ago
  I use Unity too. Even for 2d I think it is the best cross platform game engine if you don't mind spending some money. The latest Rovio 2d physics game even uses it. I used to be all about HTML5 but after a while I realized that I don't like javascript and I hate dealing with browser quirks. C# Unity is where it's at.
reedhedges 14y ago
Would you use a library or framework that dealt with some of the browser issues? If so, what kinds of things would you be looking for in such a framework?