5 ms·

Still using X11, so no Noctia for me. Patiently waiting for somebody/someone to get remote desktop on Wayland. https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=481912 https

Still using X11, so no Noctia for me. Patiently waiting for somebody/someone to get remote desktop on Wayland. https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=481912 https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=481912

its_ubuntu 8mo ago
[dead]
- mrln 8mo ago
  This is not a window manager, so thanks for stating the obvious. You might not like wayland and that's fine with me, but if you decide to hate on it, you should at least know what you are hating on. There are good reasons to prefer a wayland compositor over X11. If you don't care about these reasons, that doesn't mean nobody should.
  - hulitu 8mo ago
    > This is not a window manager, so thanks for stating the obvious. So what exactly is a "shell" ?
    - its_ubuntu 8mo ago
      [dead]
    - mrln 8mo ago
      My attempt at a definition of a desktop shell would be: The collection of all the software that aids a compositor (or a window manager on X11) in providing a more complete desktop experience. Now that's kind of vague and probably also not quite correct, so a more concrete explanation would be: A program or collection of programs that gives you desktop notifications, a taskbar (with a system tray), volume controls and more stuff like that, maybe even a neat menu to configure most of this. Usually for standalone compositors/window managers you'd usually use a collection of tools like dunst, polybar, and the like, but with newer tools like quickshell, which was used here, it's reasonably easy to build a single tool which handles most of that. And that's what we're looking at here ^^
- helterskelter 8mo ago
  Wayland got rid of screen tearing, an issue that plagued every machine I had used with X since I started using Linux in 2003/2004. That alone was enough for me to switch to sway in 2016, and I've never looked back. Xorg was nothing but headaches. Let's not even mention its security model.
  - its_ubuntu 8mo ago
    [dead]
    - nextos 8mo ago
      I prefer X11 as well, but it has some security issues. Notably, all applications can read your input at any time. It's really hard to sandbox. Wayland brought some irritations, including increased latency, and an architecture that requires rethinking all window managers. A rewrite is not enough. Very annoying.
      - stonogo 8mo ago
        I will never understand why "the computer can tell what input it is receiving" has turned into an accepted threat model. I understand that we have built a computer where our primary interface depends on running untrusted code from random remote locations, but it is absolutely incredible to me that the response to that is to fundamentally cripple basic functionality instead of fixing the actual problem. We have chosen to live in a world where the software we run cannot be trusted to run on our computers, and we'd rather break our computers than make another choice. Absolutely baffling state of affairs.
        teo_zero 8mo ago
        I have doors between rooms in my house, despite its being inhabited by members of the same family who trust each other.
        stonogo 8mo ago
MaxRegret 8mo ago
You probably know this already, but the problem isn't remote desktop into a logged-in session (krdp supports this) but rather logging in remotely into a headless server without a local session running. This is slightly more complicated because the login manager has to get involved and present its UI remotely. This is what that bug is tracking. If you're happy to use Gnome with GDM as the login manager, remote headless sessions are supported already with gnome-remote-desktop: https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-remote-desktop#headless-multi-user-remote-login https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-remote-desktop#headless....
- silon42 8mo ago
  Personally, I am fine with starting sessions via ssh, don't need extra remote login.
  - bionsystem 8mo ago
    Depends on everybody needs obviously, but say you have your dev machine that is remote, and you want to connect to it from a laptop (for real-estate reason or just for working from everywhere you want), maybe you want everything on the same (remote) machine like browser, db, IDE, etc and access to it as a remote "desktop" not just an ssh session. Of course cli tools would be enough for somebody who likes a full TUI dev environment (and for my own use cases that would be enough) but for some people I understand the need, and I feel it is a regression for them to not have it.
tapoxi 8mo ago
This is something implemented by the compositor, so with KDE this may be addressed by the new Plasma Login Manager. GNOME already supports this.
torginus 8mo ago
I'm not familiar with the space, but wouldnt something that streams the whole screen like a video (WebRTC or Moonlight and VNC works like this ) work here too as well, and would be universal? Wayland already supports screen capture (into a texture, at interactive framerates) fairly well.
- Tajnymag 8mo ago
  I'd say the problematic part is not capturing the desktop but injecting controls into it. Proper universal support for simulated input is still missing.
  - torginus 8mo ago
    I have not used Wayland specifically, but did do this for X11, Windows, Qt, too much stuff to count... It usually takes the form of an api call like DispatchEvent(&MouseEvent{MOUSE_L, 1345, 3432}); It's almost literally always this

Still using X11, so no Noctia for me. Patiently waiting for somebody/someone to get remote desktop on Wayland. https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=481912 https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=481912

its_ubuntu 8mo ago

[dead]

mrln 8mo ago
This is not a window manager, so thanks for stating the obvious. You might not like wayland and that's fine with me, but if you decide to hate on it, you should at least know what you are hating on. There are good reasons to prefer a wayland compositor over X11. If you don't care about these reasons, that doesn't mean nobody should.
- hulitu 8mo ago
  > This is not a window manager, so thanks for stating the obvious. So what exactly is a "shell" ?
  - its_ubuntu 8mo ago
    [dead]
  - mrln 8mo ago
    My attempt at a definition of a desktop shell would be: The collection of all the software that aids a compositor (or a window manager on X11) in providing a more complete desktop experience. Now that's kind of vague and probably also not quite correct, so a more concrete explanation would be: A program or collection of programs that gives you desktop notifications, a taskbar (with a system tray), volume controls and more stuff like that, maybe even a neat menu to configure most of this. Usually for standalone compositors/window managers you'd usually use a collection of tools like dunst, polybar, and the like, but with newer tools like quickshell, which was used here, it's reasonably easy to build a single tool which handles most of that. And that's what we're looking at here ^^
helterskelter 8mo ago
Wayland got rid of screen tearing, an issue that plagued every machine I had used with X since I started using Linux in 2003/2004. That alone was enough for me to switch to sway in 2016, and I've never looked back. Xorg was nothing but headaches. Let's not even mention its security model.
- its_ubuntu 8mo ago
  [dead]
  - nextos 8mo ago
    I prefer X11 as well, but it has some security issues. Notably, all applications can read your input at any time. It's really hard to sandbox. Wayland brought some irritations, including increased latency, and an architecture that requires rethinking all window managers. A rewrite is not enough. Very annoying.
    - stonogo 8mo ago
      I will never understand why "the computer can tell what input it is receiving" has turned into an accepted threat model. I understand that we have built a computer where our primary interface depends on running untrusted code from random remote locations, but it is absolutely incredible to me that the response to that is to fundamentally cripple basic functionality instead of fixing the actual problem. We have chosen to live in a world where the software we run cannot be trusted to run on our computers, and we'd rather break our computers than make another choice. Absolutely baffling state of affairs.
      - teo_zero 8mo ago
        I have doors between rooms in my house, despite its being inhabited by members of the same family who trust each other.
        stonogo 8mo ago

MaxRegret 8mo ago

You probably know this already, but the problem isn't remote desktop into a logged-in session (krdp supports this) but rather logging in remotely into a headless server without a local session running. This is slightly more complicated because the login manager has to get involved and present its UI remotely. This is what that bug is tracking. If you're happy to use Gnome with GDM as the login manager, remote headless sessions are supported already with gnome-remote-desktop: https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-remote-desktop#headless-multi-user-remote-login https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-remote-desktop#headless....

silon42 8mo ago
Personally, I am fine with starting sessions via ssh, don't need extra remote login.
- bionsystem 8mo ago
  Depends on everybody needs obviously, but say you have your dev machine that is remote, and you want to connect to it from a laptop (for real-estate reason or just for working from everywhere you want), maybe you want everything on the same (remote) machine like browser, db, IDE, etc and access to it as a remote "desktop" not just an ssh session. Of course cli tools would be enough for somebody who likes a full TUI dev environment (and for my own use cases that would be enough) but for some people I understand the need, and I feel it is a regression for them to not have it.

tapoxi 8mo ago

This is something implemented by the compositor, so with KDE this may be addressed by the new Plasma Login Manager. GNOME already supports this.

torginus 8mo ago

I'm not familiar with the space, but wouldnt something that streams the whole screen like a video (WebRTC or Moonlight and VNC works like this ) work here too as well, and would be universal? Wayland already supports screen capture (into a texture, at interactive framerates) fairly well.

Tajnymag 8mo ago
I'd say the problematic part is not capturing the desktop but injecting controls into it. Proper universal support for simulated input is still missing.
- torginus 8mo ago
  I have not used Wayland specifically, but did do this for X11, Windows, Qt, too much stuff to count... It usually takes the form of an api call like DispatchEvent(&MouseEvent{MOUSE_L, 1345, 3432}); It's almost literally always this