6 ms·

Why?

ath3nd 8mo ago
[dead]
laweijfmvo 8mo ago
The article says why the death penalty is no longer on the table — because the federal murder and weapons charges were dismissed, and the remaining charges do not qualify for capital punishment. The article does not say why the charges were dismissed, though.
- rolph 8mo ago
  no they dont say why, not here. apparently the cops acted like the 4th didnt exist, so the backpack contents were disqualified as evidence. federal stalking charges have stuck so now life in prison is on the table.
  - toomuchtodo 8mo ago
    He’s going to walk.
    - JumpCrisscross 8mo ago
      > He’s going to walk If you actually believe this you can more than 10x your money [1]. [1] https://polymarket.com/event/luigi-mangione-out-of-custody-before-2027 https://polymarket.com/event/luigi-mangione-out-of-custody-b...
      - toomuchtodo 8mo ago
        Prediction markets are notoriously unreliable from a resolution perspective.
    - almosthere 8mo ago
      I actually think it's so bad in our country right now that if someone showed up at the court and snuck a gun in and shot Luigi in the back and killed him ... THAT guy would definitely get the death penalty. (he should, but so should Luigi) It's all political at this point.
      - dagmx 8mo ago
        Why should either of them get the death penalty?
        JumpCrisscross 8mo ago
        > Why should either of them get the death penalty? Pardons. If he's pardoned there is a good chance he'll kill again. (And inspire copycats.) We need to eliminate pardons across our system of justice. Between Biden pardoning his son and Trump pardoning the J6'ers, there should be a bipartisan case for closing this.
        dagmx 8mo ago
        Why would he need to be pardoned to inspire copycats? Why wouldn’t his death cause him to become a martyr and inspire others? Why would he be pardoned by the governor at all? Why do you believe Hunter Biden being pardoned is on the same level as J6 being pardoned, when the reasoning (accurately) was to protect him from a perversion of the law in turn? Your entire argument is essentially “kill them before they can prove they’re not still a threat”.
        ben_w 8mo ago
        > Why do you believe Hunter Biden being pardoned is on the same level as J6 being pardoned, when the reasoning (accurately) was to protect him from a perversion of the law in turn? Not to speak for JumpCrisscross, but IMO this could be construed not as "Hunter Biden being pardoned is on the same level as J6 being pardoned" but rather "Republicans will support the end of presidential pardoning because of Hunter Biden being pardoned, while Democrats will support the end of presidential pardoning because of J6 being pardoned".
    - brandonmenc 8mo ago
      Keep dreaming. I'm not sure why so many people believe that what - jury nullification? - is going to happen.
      - toomuchtodo 8mo ago
        $1.4M defense fund (so far), exceptional legal team, jury nullification, lots of paths to success. His case is going well so far, and appeals are always an option. “Proof beyond a reasonable doubt” is the bar. How confident are you there isn’t at least one juror who hasn’t been harmed by their health insurance, financially or medically? Only takes one.
        JumpCrisscross 8mo ago
        > How confident are you there isn’t at least one juror who hasn’t been harmed by their health insurance, financially or medically? Who doesn't perjor themselves during voir dire, thereby triggering a mistrial? Pretty confident. Maybe he gets lucky in federal court because Bondi is an idiot. But the state charges are solid, and New York isn't Reddit.
        toomuchtodo 8mo ago
        I’ll bet you a bottle of a beverage you enjoy. Let me know. Laws are just loose rules we sometimes collectively adhere to, people are mostly emotion driven. Sometimes the law matters, but sometimes not.
        JumpCrisscross 8mo ago
        > I’ll bet you a bottle of a beverage you enjoy. Let me know I’ll take it! If he’s found not guilty on all counts in his state and federal trials, I owe you. > people are mostly emotion driven Sure. A prosecutor’s (and judge’s) job is to remove these people from a jury pool.
      - JumpCrisscross 8mo ago
        > not sure why so many people believe that what - jury nullification? - is going to happen Eh, if I thought Mangione was justified or effective it would be an easy way to feel good for a while with zero real-world consequences apart from my moral integrity. (Which, to be clear, is mine and mine alone. I have friends–good people whom I love and respect–who would nullify Mangione. They're just never getting seated on his jury without perjuring themselves.)
    - burnt-resistor 8mo ago
      Only if he has $2M and mentions how much he loves red hats.
      - toomuchtodo 8mo ago
        Do you think it's unlikely he couldn't raise $2M for a pardon bribe? We are in unconventional times after all.
  - datsci_est_2015 8mo ago
    This is a better source: https://apnews.com/article/mangione-unitedhealthcare-death-penalty-dismissed-killing-1d17a30d0297acda29fc82dbf54d2677 https://apnews.com/article/mangione-unitedhealthcare-death-p... The judge ruled the backpack evidence can be used.
- JumpCrisscross 8mo ago
  > because the federal murder and weapons charges were dismissed Why were these charges dismissed?
  - _--__--__ 8mo ago
    Federal courts do not have jurisdiction over murders by default. There are two obvious cases where they do (murder of a federal official, murder on federal land) and a shaky third category of "murder pursuant to another federal crime". In the past that third category has been used to charge organized criminals, anything that touches the interstate commerce act (drug trafficking/contract killing/etc), and terrorism. Charging Mangione with federal murder connected to a federal stalking charge was relatively unprecedented, but they might get it to stick on appeal. Stalking is threatening but maybe not inherently violent, but that seems similar to bank robbery (where FDIC insurance is frequently used to grant federal jurisdiction over involved homicides).
    - JumpCrisscross 8mo ago
      Wouldn’t his interstate escape and target list let the federal murder charges stick?
      - _--__--__ 8mo ago
        Mangione is charged with killing a man (in New York, with New York state jurisdiction) and stalking a man (across multiple states, the federal charge). There is no such thing as a federal crime of fleeing across state lines or owning a list of assassination targets.

Why?

[dead]

The article says why the death penalty is no longer on the table — because the federal murder and weapons charges were dismissed, and the remaining charges do not qualify for capital punishment. The article does not say why the charges were dismissed, though.

rolph 8mo ago
no they dont say why, not here. apparently the cops acted like the 4th didnt exist, so the backpack contents were disqualified as evidence. federal stalking charges have stuck so now life in prison is on the table.
- toomuchtodo 8mo ago
  He’s going to walk.
  - JumpCrisscross 8mo ago
    > He’s going to walk If you actually believe this you can more than 10x your money [1]. [1] https://polymarket.com/event/luigi-mangione-out-of-custody-before-2027 https://polymarket.com/event/luigi-mangione-out-of-custody-b...
    - toomuchtodo 8mo ago
      Prediction markets are notoriously unreliable from a resolution perspective.
  - almosthere 8mo ago
    I actually think it's so bad in our country right now that if someone showed up at the court and snuck a gun in and shot Luigi in the back and killed him ... THAT guy would definitely get the death penalty. (he should, but so should Luigi) It's all political at this point.
    - dagmx 8mo ago
      Why should either of them get the death penalty?
      - JumpCrisscross 8mo ago
        > Why should either of them get the death penalty? Pardons. If he's pardoned there is a good chance he'll kill again. (And inspire copycats.) We need to eliminate pardons across our system of justice. Between Biden pardoning his son and Trump pardoning the J6'ers, there should be a bipartisan case for closing this.
        dagmx 8mo ago
        Why would he need to be pardoned to inspire copycats? Why wouldn’t his death cause him to become a martyr and inspire others? Why would he be pardoned by the governor at all? Why do you believe Hunter Biden being pardoned is on the same level as J6 being pardoned, when the reasoning (accurately) was to protect him from a perversion of the law in turn? Your entire argument is essentially “kill them before they can prove they’re not still a threat”.
        ben_w 8mo ago
        > Why do you believe Hunter Biden being pardoned is on the same level as J6 being pardoned, when the reasoning (accurately) was to protect him from a perversion of the law in turn? Not to speak for JumpCrisscross, but IMO this could be construed not as "Hunter Biden being pardoned is on the same level as J6 being pardoned" but rather "Republicans will support the end of presidential pardoning because of Hunter Biden being pardoned, while Democrats will support the end of presidential pardoning because of J6 being pardoned".
  - brandonmenc 8mo ago
    Keep dreaming. I'm not sure why so many people believe that what - jury nullification? - is going to happen.
    - toomuchtodo 8mo ago
      $1.4M defense fund (so far), exceptional legal team, jury nullification, lots of paths to success. His case is going well so far, and appeals are always an option. “Proof beyond a reasonable doubt” is the bar. How confident are you there isn’t at least one juror who hasn’t been harmed by their health insurance, financially or medically? Only takes one.
      - JumpCrisscross 8mo ago
        > How confident are you there isn’t at least one juror who hasn’t been harmed by their health insurance, financially or medically? Who doesn't perjor themselves during voir dire, thereby triggering a mistrial? Pretty confident. Maybe he gets lucky in federal court because Bondi is an idiot. But the state charges are solid, and New York isn't Reddit.
        toomuchtodo 8mo ago
        I’ll bet you a bottle of a beverage you enjoy. Let me know. Laws are just loose rules we sometimes collectively adhere to, people are mostly emotion driven. Sometimes the law matters, but sometimes not.
        JumpCrisscross 8mo ago
        > I’ll bet you a bottle of a beverage you enjoy. Let me know I’ll take it! If he’s found not guilty on all counts in his state and federal trials, I owe you. > people are mostly emotion driven Sure. A prosecutor’s (and judge’s) job is to remove these people from a jury pool.
    - JumpCrisscross 8mo ago
      > not sure why so many people believe that what - jury nullification? - is going to happen Eh, if I thought Mangione was justified or effective it would be an easy way to feel good for a while with zero real-world consequences apart from my moral integrity. (Which, to be clear, is mine and mine alone. I have friends–good people whom I love and respect–who would nullify Mangione. They're just never getting seated on his jury without perjuring themselves.)
  - burnt-resistor 8mo ago
    Only if he has $2M and mentions how much he loves red hats.
    - toomuchtodo 8mo ago
      Do you think it's unlikely he couldn't raise $2M for a pardon bribe? We are in unconventional times after all.
- datsci_est_2015 8mo ago
  This is a better source: https://apnews.com/article/mangione-unitedhealthcare-death-penalty-dismissed-killing-1d17a30d0297acda29fc82dbf54d2677 https://apnews.com/article/mangione-unitedhealthcare-death-p... The judge ruled the backpack evidence can be used.
JumpCrisscross 8mo ago
> because the federal murder and weapons charges were dismissed Why were these charges dismissed?
- _--__--__ 8mo ago
  Federal courts do not have jurisdiction over murders by default. There are two obvious cases where they do (murder of a federal official, murder on federal land) and a shaky third category of "murder pursuant to another federal crime". In the past that third category has been used to charge organized criminals, anything that touches the interstate commerce act (drug trafficking/contract killing/etc), and terrorism. Charging Mangione with federal murder connected to a federal stalking charge was relatively unprecedented, but they might get it to stick on appeal. Stalking is threatening but maybe not inherently violent, but that seems similar to bank robbery (where FDIC insurance is frequently used to grant federal jurisdiction over involved homicides).
  - JumpCrisscross 8mo ago
    Wouldn’t his interstate escape and target list let the federal murder charges stick?
    - _--__--__ 8mo ago
      Mangione is charged with killing a man (in New York, with New York state jurisdiction) and stalking a man (across multiple states, the federal charge). There is no such thing as a federal crime of fleeing across state lines or owning a list of assassination targets.