4 ms·

My favorite part of this whole game / controversy is how "doing your own research" on an issue leads you to the alt-right. Parody-level blunder from the left on

My favorite part of this whole game / controversy is how "doing your own research" on an issue leads you to the alt-right. Parody-level blunder from the left on that one.

throwawayqqq11 8mo ago
Any suggestions where the billions for biased economic research, biased LLMs, skewed algorithms, selective ad revenue, massive botnet operations, campaign funding, corrupted influencal networks, media ownership -- and the most important part: a functioning education system to immunize people against propaganda so they can actually do ther own research against all odds -- should come from? What would you suggest, when it turns out, that even with massive fact checking capabilities, lies just spread faster no mattet your factual accurracy? Blaming the left for the current upheaval is a right prolaganda message too, so did my broadening reply work on you? No?
- djohnston 8mo ago
  [flagged]
  - throwawayqqq11 8mo ago
    And how did i discourage you from discovering the truth?
    - djohnston 8mo ago
      Not you - the game! The game is teaching children that the act of trying to independently research information is a dangerous pathway that can lead to extremism. That belief is drivel - any self-respecting intelligent child will instinctively reject it. I feel for those who fall victim to such indoctrination though.
      - throwawayqqq11 8mo ago
        So by pointing out that an outsider of the game, the left, is not to blame for its outcome, i somehow made a point for that rigged game? I discouraged you with this?! Please dont reply. You are dwelling deeper and deeper. The actual problem is the _massive and intentional_ cognitive inability of critical thought.
        djohnston 8mo ago
        The game in question was made to propagate leftist narratives to children, obviously. You needed that connection spelled out? It’s a game that discourages people from trying to reach an independent viewpoint on migration because it might lead them to be anti-migration. Who else would send such a warning, the right? Some politically unmotivated developer building educational games at the behest of the governing party? lol.
        throwawayqqq11 8mo ago
        Yes, i needed that bullshit spelled out. When your mind is wrapped in identity politics, then "the left" is only about some imaginary enemy. Btw, an image of an enemy, that is conveyed by propaganda channels you should recognize. Disgust towards some ougroup and the elevation/pride of your own ingroup (aka. yourself) are the primary drivers how that propaganda manipulates you. Besides love, disgust can be the strongest emotion one can have towards other humans and when that one is dumb enough, it is futile to argue about complex realities, like crime statistics or socialization. Unfortunately, i have to spell that out too. The left is primarily focused on wealth distribution! That is why i am so sure, you are the propaganda distorted mind here. If the game was really rigged by the left, we certainly wouldnt have the current oligarchy establishing fascism and using all tricks _of that game_ to convince the gullible masses that it is actually the have-nots at the bottom (not just migrants) who are to blame for societal problems. Populists make this their primary campaign message (for their donors) and dipshits make this their primary voting reason. With a little more education and less brainfuck, you would _know_ that most western countries actually need immigrarion! Facing all this idiocy, i am slowly loosing hope. My very first comment to you was "where should the billions for all this come from?" and ofc you didnt engage with it. You talk about some rigged game (which is true) but fail to grasp the bigger picture.
    - collingreen 8mo ago
      Remember you don't have to feed the trolls. It's frustrating when people fake argue with you on the internet and seem like they just aren't quite engaging with what you're saying. Unfortunately, sometimes that's the point since it inherently devalues the conversation as a whole. Not telling you what to do; just passing by and reminding that you're under no obligation to engage with a convo that isn't good faith because sometimes I forget that myself in the moment.
      - throwawayqqq11 8mo ago
        I believe, i cannot reason pathological dipshits out of ther idiocy. I do this for the silent, maybe tumbling bystanders. But thanks for the heads up.
- mycall 8mo ago
  Fact checking isn't built into each article readers or video playback systems. That is half the problem as I would find a fact checking curator that I trusted and use that for all knowledge acquisition.
  - pstuart 8mo ago
    This is the other half: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falsifiability https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falsifiability
estearum 8mo ago
Much easier to flood the zone with bullshit when you have no regard for truth. It's extremely hard to propagate facts, especially since facts on almost any salient issue are complex, vague, apparently contradictory, and otherwise require a lot of attention to wrap one's head around.
seanmcdirmid 8mo ago
They don’t mean actually “do your own research”, they mean “do your own research from these far right biased resources.” All you have to do is plant the seed of a bias and lead them to confirming those biases. Real research would require not having an opinion in the first place and just looking for the cause of a problem from a variety of sources with different biases.
- deleted 8mo ago
  [deleted]
- pseudohadamard 8mo ago
  I've always mentally translated the instruction to DYOR as "look up conspiracy theories on the internet", which is how it seems to be used.
torginus 8mo ago
The fundamental issue is that actual information of what the fck is going on in the world/your country and why is so far buried and removed from the public eye that people either accept the BS narrative, latch onto crazy conspiracy theories, or sink into total apathy. It would be journalists' job to actually dig into this, but you know. Working at an organization owned by a media conglomerate whose majority shareholder is a billionaire with very clear state connections usually qualifies as independent journalism among friends and state propaganda among enemies.
baggy_three 8mo ago
This sort of thing is why I've moved away from left-wing politics as I've got older. I'm now centre-left and not much engaged with politics any more, whereas in my twenties I considered myself far-left and would be leafleting, going to protests, and have social groups full of people who felt the same way. I came to realise that most leftists are idiots who don't think for themselves and need to be spoonfed the latest acceptable opinions, usually from a social media echo chamber. And these opinions change with the wind. Like why shouldn't I do my own research and try to discuss it with people who supposedly have similar principles? No apparently that's not allowed and you'll get shouted down for it, maybe even banned for wrongthink.
- jamiek88 8mo ago
  Anyone who uses the term ‘leftist’ is just a right winger cosplaying. There’s a fascist take over of the government, citizens being executed in broad daylight on the street. But no the real problem is ‘leftists’ talking mean to me. Ok, 16 minute old account.
  - baggy_three 8mo ago
    Thank you for a live demonstration of what I'm talking about. You sound just like the arseholes I fell out with back in the day. Not my government, by the way. I'm in the UK and so the propensity of USians to blast each other away with guns for stupid reasons isn't something that particularly concerns me. You people have a school shooting pretty much every week. Absolute shithole of a country no matter who is in charge. Also, are you aware you have neo-Nazi numbers in your username? Funny to see such an account complaining about fascism, in an incongruous kind of way.
    - jamiek88 8mo ago
      I was born in 88 you weirdo. Use your real account, coward. Also I’m British. 3/3 wrong there, sparky who’s scared of ‘leftists’ mocking them so deeply they become right wing? Make that make sense. You are saying your beliefs are so shallow, so little thought through that kids on the internet mocking them are enough for you to become the opposite and join the culture war?
ericmcer 8mo ago
Maybe because the lefts big issues are very "all or none". In 2021 if you said "I support trans rights in every area except trans women competing in women's sports" that would make you alt-right. You either completely swallow the narrative or you get thrown out completely, no room for nuance or discussion.
- cauch 8mo ago
  But saying that will also make you a woke terrorist for the right. I'm not saying it is not a problem and the left is not to blame. But I don't see why you explain the situation because of the "all or none" of the left, rather than the "all or none" of everyone in the US: left and right.
  - bigbadfeline 8mo ago
    > But I don't see why you explain the situation because of the "all or none" of the left I'm not sure about the person whose comment you addressed but, from experience, I can think of these reasons: 1. A Democratic supporter naturally assumes the Democratic party is the smarter one and holds them to a higher standard. 2. Most of us independents have written the GOP off as a total loss sometime after last January. I suspect, many Dem supporters had arrived at the same conclusion a tad earlier. In other words, what's the point of beating a dead horse? 3. follows from the previous two - there is a sense of real urgency as to make the Dem party do something meaningful, so by pointing the criticism only to them we deprive them from their favorite excuse - that the other party is even worse - they've been hysterically eager to use that excuse for many decades. Otherwise, both parties are very selective about what they do or don't compromise on, but in either case, the public rarely gets something other than the short end of the stick.

My favorite part of this whole game / controversy is how "doing your own research" on an issue leads you to the alt-right. Parody-level blunder from the left on that one.

throwawayqqq11 8mo ago

Any suggestions where the billions for biased economic research, biased LLMs, skewed algorithms, selective ad revenue, massive botnet operations, campaign funding, corrupted influencal networks, media ownership -- and the most important part: a functioning education system to immunize people against propaganda so they can actually do ther own research against all odds -- should come from? What would you suggest, when it turns out, that even with massive fact checking capabilities, lies just spread faster no mattet your factual accurracy? Blaming the left for the current upheaval is a right prolaganda message too, so did my broadening reply work on you? No?

djohnston 8mo ago
[flagged]
- throwawayqqq11 8mo ago
  And how did i discourage you from discovering the truth?
  - djohnston 8mo ago
    Not you - the game! The game is teaching children that the act of trying to independently research information is a dangerous pathway that can lead to extremism. That belief is drivel - any self-respecting intelligent child will instinctively reject it. I feel for those who fall victim to such indoctrination though.
    - throwawayqqq11 8mo ago
      So by pointing out that an outsider of the game, the left, is not to blame for its outcome, i somehow made a point for that rigged game? I discouraged you with this?! Please dont reply. You are dwelling deeper and deeper. The actual problem is the _massive and intentional_ cognitive inability of critical thought.
      - djohnston 8mo ago
        The game in question was made to propagate leftist narratives to children, obviously. You needed that connection spelled out? It’s a game that discourages people from trying to reach an independent viewpoint on migration because it might lead them to be anti-migration. Who else would send such a warning, the right? Some politically unmotivated developer building educational games at the behest of the governing party? lol.
        throwawayqqq11 8mo ago
        Yes, i needed that bullshit spelled out. When your mind is wrapped in identity politics, then "the left" is only about some imaginary enemy. Btw, an image of an enemy, that is conveyed by propaganda channels you should recognize. Disgust towards some ougroup and the elevation/pride of your own ingroup (aka. yourself) are the primary drivers how that propaganda manipulates you. Besides love, disgust can be the strongest emotion one can have towards other humans and when that one is dumb enough, it is futile to argue about complex realities, like crime statistics or socialization. Unfortunately, i have to spell that out too. The left is primarily focused on wealth distribution! That is why i am so sure, you are the propaganda distorted mind here. If the game was really rigged by the left, we certainly wouldnt have the current oligarchy establishing fascism and using all tricks _of that game_ to convince the gullible masses that it is actually the have-nots at the bottom (not just migrants) who are to blame for societal problems. Populists make this their primary campaign message (for their donors) and dipshits make this their primary voting reason. With a little more education and less brainfuck, you would _know_ that most western countries actually need immigrarion! Facing all this idiocy, i am slowly loosing hope. My very first comment to you was "where should the billions for all this come from?" and ofc you didnt engage with it. You talk about some rigged game (which is true) but fail to grasp the bigger picture.
  - collingreen 8mo ago
    Remember you don't have to feed the trolls. It's frustrating when people fake argue with you on the internet and seem like they just aren't quite engaging with what you're saying. Unfortunately, sometimes that's the point since it inherently devalues the conversation as a whole. Not telling you what to do; just passing by and reminding that you're under no obligation to engage with a convo that isn't good faith because sometimes I forget that myself in the moment.
    - throwawayqqq11 8mo ago
      I believe, i cannot reason pathological dipshits out of ther idiocy. I do this for the silent, maybe tumbling bystanders. But thanks for the heads up.
mycall 8mo ago
Fact checking isn't built into each article readers or video playback systems. That is half the problem as I would find a fact checking curator that I trusted and use that for all knowledge acquisition.
- pstuart 8mo ago
  This is the other half: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falsifiability https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falsifiability

estearum 8mo ago

Much easier to flood the zone with bullshit when you have no regard for truth. It's extremely hard to propagate facts, especially since facts on almost any salient issue are complex, vague, apparently contradictory, and otherwise require a lot of attention to wrap one's head around.

seanmcdirmid 8mo ago

They don’t mean actually “do your own research”, they mean “do your own research from these far right biased resources.” All you have to do is plant the seed of a bias and lead them to confirming those biases. Real research would require not having an opinion in the first place and just looking for the cause of a problem from a variety of sources with different biases.

deleted 8mo ago
[deleted]
pseudohadamard 8mo ago
I've always mentally translated the instruction to DYOR as "look up conspiracy theories on the internet", which is how it seems to be used.

torginus 8mo ago

The fundamental issue is that actual information of what the fck is going on in the world/your country and why is so far buried and removed from the public eye that people either accept the BS narrative, latch onto crazy conspiracy theories, or sink into total apathy. It would be journalists' job to actually dig into this, but you know. Working at an organization owned by a media conglomerate whose majority shareholder is a billionaire with very clear state connections usually qualifies as independent journalism among friends and state propaganda among enemies.

baggy_three 8mo ago

This sort of thing is why I've moved away from left-wing politics as I've got older. I'm now centre-left and not much engaged with politics any more, whereas in my twenties I considered myself far-left and would be leafleting, going to protests, and have social groups full of people who felt the same way. I came to realise that most leftists are idiots who don't think for themselves and need to be spoonfed the latest acceptable opinions, usually from a social media echo chamber. And these opinions change with the wind. Like why shouldn't I do my own research and try to discuss it with people who supposedly have similar principles? No apparently that's not allowed and you'll get shouted down for it, maybe even banned for wrongthink.

jamiek88 8mo ago
Anyone who uses the term ‘leftist’ is just a right winger cosplaying. There’s a fascist take over of the government, citizens being executed in broad daylight on the street. But no the real problem is ‘leftists’ talking mean to me. Ok, 16 minute old account.
- baggy_three 8mo ago
  Thank you for a live demonstration of what I'm talking about. You sound just like the arseholes I fell out with back in the day. Not my government, by the way. I'm in the UK and so the propensity of USians to blast each other away with guns for stupid reasons isn't something that particularly concerns me. You people have a school shooting pretty much every week. Absolute shithole of a country no matter who is in charge. Also, are you aware you have neo-Nazi numbers in your username? Funny to see such an account complaining about fascism, in an incongruous kind of way.
  - jamiek88 8mo ago
    I was born in 88 you weirdo. Use your real account, coward. Also I’m British. 3/3 wrong there, sparky who’s scared of ‘leftists’ mocking them so deeply they become right wing? Make that make sense. You are saying your beliefs are so shallow, so little thought through that kids on the internet mocking them are enough for you to become the opposite and join the culture war?

ericmcer 8mo ago

Maybe because the lefts big issues are very "all or none". In 2021 if you said "I support trans rights in every area except trans women competing in women's sports" that would make you alt-right. You either completely swallow the narrative or you get thrown out completely, no room for nuance or discussion.

cauch 8mo ago
But saying that will also make you a woke terrorist for the right. I'm not saying it is not a problem and the left is not to blame. But I don't see why you explain the situation because of the "all or none" of the left, rather than the "all or none" of everyone in the US: left and right.
- bigbadfeline 8mo ago
  > But I don't see why you explain the situation because of the "all or none" of the left I'm not sure about the person whose comment you addressed but, from experience, I can think of these reasons: 1. A Democratic supporter naturally assumes the Democratic party is the smarter one and holds them to a higher standard. 2. Most of us independents have written the GOP off as a total loss sometime after last January. I suspect, many Dem supporters had arrived at the same conclusion a tad earlier. In other words, what's the point of beating a dead horse? 3. follows from the previous two - there is a sense of real urgency as to make the Dem party do something meaningful, so by pointing the criticism only to them we deprive them from their favorite excuse - that the other party is even worse - they've been hysterically eager to use that excuse for many decades. Otherwise, both parties are very selective about what they do or don't compromise on, but in either case, the public rarely gets something other than the short end of the stick.