7 ms·
Lix – universal version control system for binary files
- solidsnack9000 8mo agoIt was initially hard for me to understand how this could work but it looks like there is a plugin system?
- samuelstros 8mo agoYes. The tracking works via plugins to keep it generic. Here is a rough illustration: File change -> Plugin (detects changes) -> Lix It works surprisingly well because most standard file formats have off the shelf parsers. Parse a file format, and et voila, it is trivial to diff. Then pass on a standard schema for changes to lix and you end up with a generic API to query changes.
- zaphirplane 8mo agoWriting the plugin seems to be a hard problem. It’s not clear from the link if there are non trivial plugins written for real formats, not toy not POC but a for reals plugins
- gu5 8mo agoLix is also a soft fork of the official Nix package manager implementation: https://lix.systems/ https://lix.systems/
- yjftsjthsd-h 8mo agoI really assumed that this was that; even calling it a universal version control system for binary files would be kind of a weird way of describing it but is plausibly a valid description for the package manager.
- Rexxar 8mo agoLix is also the name of a computer science and mathematics laboratory: https://www.lix.polytechnique.fr/ https://www.lix.polytechnique.fr/
- bibimsz 8mo agocompelling problem statement. md and csv have their limit.
- AmbroseBierce 8mo agoGit is a command line program so it feels strange that this doesn't seem to support that use case.
- hekkle 8mo agoBased on the product description, it seems that they don't like text, and want to deal in objects. It would feel strange if they did support a terminal, rather than a GUI.
- lombasihir 8mo agobecause its a stupid content tracker. see man git.
- samuelstros 8mo agoHi, I'm the creator of lix. Lix doesn't target code version control. It can be used for it. But the primary use case is embedding version control in applications. Such an application can be an AI agent that modifies files which entails the need to show what the agent did in that file e.g. tracking the changes. Git is good enough for code. I don't think there is space to gain much market share.
- Terretta 8mo agoSome feedback about the primary use case. Your Lix doc (LLM written but with typos?) is sort of weird, handwaving how Lix does version control over, say, Excel, to say it's about working with SQL databases: How does Lix work? Lix adds a version control system on top of SQL databases that let's you query virtual tables like file, file_history, etc. via plain SQL. These table's are version controlled. Then it gets weirder: Why this matters: Lix doesn't reinvent databases — durability, ACID, and corruption recovery are handled by battle-tested SQL databases. This seems like a left turn from the value prop and why the value prop matters? A firm-wide audit trail of changes to typically opaque file types (M365 files in particular) could be tremendously valuable -- and additive -- compared to the versioning that's baked into the file bundles. The version control is already embedded by the app, what adds value is reporting on or managing that from outside the app. As for how it works, both in the docs and in the comment I'm replying to, it's unclear how any of this interacts with the native version control embedded in M365 apps or why this tool can be trusted as effective at tracking M365 content changes.
- yoyohello13 8mo agoLooks cool, but seems kind of weird that it only works through an sdk. Should there be a cli or something? Edit: Oh I see. Seems like their use case is embedding version control into another application.
- samuelstros 8mo agoCorrect. Lix has been developed with the embedded use-case in mind. Someone can write a CLI for it. Though, the primary use case is not code version control but embedding into applications
- yoyohello13 8mo agoThanks for the clarification. We have a bunch of SSIS/SSRS packages in version control that are essentially just big balls of XML. Git has a really hard time dealing with them. I was thinking Lix may possibly be a good option.
- samuelstros 8mo agoThe SSIS use case is a good one for lix. Write an SSIS plugin (essentially just parse the XML) and lix can track the xml props in the SSIS package. Opposed to line by line stuff that git does.
- forrestthewoods 8mo agoWeird sales pitch. I think Git is super mediocre and a VCS that supports binary files would be awesome. But then the first thing it talks about is diffing files. Which honestly shouldn’t even be a feature of VCS. That’s just a separate layer.
- Antibabelic 8mo agoMost version control systems that are not Git support binary. In the industry you most often see Perforce P4 and Subversion being used for that purpose.
- forrestthewoods 8mo agoCorrect. Perforce is expensive AF and is also kinda meh. They got bought by private equity and haven’t meaningfully improved it for like 15 years. But they’ve got gamedevs by the balls who don’t have an alternative. It’s unfortunate.
- samuelstros 8mo ago> But then the first thing it talks about is diffing files. Which honestly shouldn’t even be a feature of VCS. That’s just a separate layer. There is nuance between git line by line diffing and what lix does. For text diffing it holds true that diffing is a separate layer. Text files are small in size which allows on the fly diffing (that's what git does) by comparing two docs. On the fly diffing doesn't work for structured file formats like xlsx, fig, dwg etc. It's too expensive. Both in terms of materializing two files at specific commits, and then diffing these two files. What lix does under the hood is tracking individual changes, _which allows rendering a diff without on the fly diffing_. So lix is kind of responsible for the diffs but only in the sense that it provides a SQL API to query changes between two states. How the diff is rendered is up to the application.
- forrestthewoods 8mo ago> On the fly diffing doesn't work for structured file formats like xlsx, fig, dwg etc. It's too expensive. Both in terms of materializing two files at specific commits, and then diffing these two files. I don’t think that’s actually true? How often are binary files being diffed? How long does it take to materialize? How long to run a diff algorithm? I’ve worked with some tools that can diff images. Works great. Not a problem in need of solving. In any case I’ll give benefit of the doubt that this project solves some real problem in a useful way. I’m not sure what it is. My goals in a VCS for binary files seem to be very very very different than yours.
- uasi 8mo agoGit can display diff between binary files using custom diff drivers: > Put the following line in your .gitattributes file: *.docx diff=word > This tells Git that any file that matches this pattern (.docx) should use the “word” filter when you try to view a diff that contains changes. What is the “word” filter? You have to set it up [in .gitconfig]. https://git-scm.com/book/en/v2/Customizing-Git-Git-Attributes https://git-scm.com/book/en/v2/Customizing-Git-Git-Attribute...
- theknarf 8mo agoWould be interesting to see some tooling built around being a custom diff driver for a bunch of different standard formats!
- theknarf 8mo agoI found this in my git starts: https://github.com/xltrail/git-xl?tab=readme-ov-file https://github.com/xltrail/git-xl?tab=readme-ov-file And then there is also Pandoc that I guess could be helpful in this regard.
- WorldMaker 8mo agoI had some interesting luck with the generic approach to unzip the DOCX/XLSX/ODT/etc, then to the contents recursively apply other filters like XML and JSON formatters/prettifiers. (My work [1] in this space predated git so it wasn't written as a git diff filter, instead it automated source control. But the same principles could be used in the other direction.) Not the highest level diffs you could possibly get, but at least for a programmer even ugly XML and JSON diffs were still nice to have over binary diffs. [1] https://github.com/WorldMaker/musdex https://github.com/WorldMaker/musdex
- packetlost 8mo agoYeah, this is how I would prefer to solve this problem personally, but it would be really nice to have some collection of tools that cover common binary file formats automatically instead of having to configure this manually every time.
- 8mo ago
- micw 8mo agoI wonder how much room this leaves for unintended, not shown changes. E.g. Excel is a complex format that allows all sort of metadata and embeddings that would not always seem as cell changes ...
- samuelstros 8mo agoDepends on the diff you render and what the plugin tracks. In general, lix gives in API to track changes in any file format (via plugins). The "diff noise" thus depends on a) the plugin i.e. does it track them metadata? and b) what is rendered as the diff. If the user doesn't care about seeing a diff of metadata in Excel, don't render the metadata in the diff. The latter is trivial because diffing in lix is just a SQL query.
- orthoxerox 8mo agoIt's nice, but it needs to support the most common file formats used in gamedev to gain enough traction.
- anttiharju 8mo agofor office files one can also unzip and zip to store them in git as plaintext
- huflungdung 8mo ago[dead]
- samuelstros 8mo agoHoly moly. I just went to bed. Checking my phone for last time. Opening hackernews for "one last scroll" and see lix, my project, popping up here. Going through the questions now. So much for going to bed.
- samuelstros 8mo agoLearnings from the comments so far: I need to refine the positioning of lix. Lix is not a replacement for git. Nor does it target version controlling code as the primary use case. A better positioning might be "version control system as a library". The primary use case is embedding lix into applications, AI agents, etc. that need version control. I need to to bed now. I have a flight to catch in 6 hours. PS I am open to suggestions regarding the positioning!
- KingMob 8mo agoHi, before you get too wedded to the name, you should be aware that there's already a major nix project called lix: https://lix.systems/ https://lix.systems/. Before clicking, I assumed this was actually a new feature of theirs that would apply nix build principles of some sort to version control of binaries.
- thephotonsphere 8mo agoname confusing it be https://lix.systems/ https://lix.systems/
- rlonstein 8mo agoName collision. I thought it might be the "Lix" fork of "Nix".
- internet_points 8mo agoThey should change the name while they still can https://lix.systems/ https://lix.systems/
- danmeier 8mo agoGreat semantic diffs, but does Lix actually define a merge algebra for concurrent structured edits, or are conflicts just punted back to humans? How does its SQL engine guarantee deterministic merges vs last-write-wins?
- samuelstros 8mo agoMerge algebra is similar to git with a three way merge. Given that lix tracks individual changes, the three way merge is more fine grained. In case of a conflict, you can either decide to do last write wins or surface the conflict to the user e.g. "Do you want to keep version A or version B?" The SQL engine is merge unrelated. Lix uses SQL as storage and query engine, but not for merges.
- mog_dev 8mo agoI wonder if this could be used in conjunction with git for UT5 projects
- ezoe 8mo agoIt seems to me that this is just an issue of diff features. Git can extended to show semantic diff of binary files and it doesn't technically need a completely new VCS. As git became the most popular VCS right now and it continues to do so for foreseeable future, I don't think incompatibility with git is a good design choice.
- samuelstros 8mo agoIndeed, if lix were to target code version controlling, incompatibility with git is a “dead on arrival” situation. But, Lix use case is not version controlling code. It’s embedding version control in applications. Hence, the reason why lix runs within SQL databases. Apps have databases. Lix runs of top of them. The benefit for the developer is a version control system within their database, and exposing version control to users.
- notachatbot123 8mo agoI look at the page and leave without any clue as to what it actually does. Agents and AI are mentioned so I assume it might just be incoherent slop? The person behind this boasts on Twitter, that they fired all their remote developers and used AI instead. Judging by tweets, this project is 2-3 years in the making. > Lix is a universal version control system that can diff any file format (.xlsx, .pdf, .docx, etc). > Unlike Git's line-based diffs, Lix understands file structure. Lix sees price: 10 → 12 or cell B4: pending → shipped, not "line 4 changed" or "binary files differ". How? I have a custom binary file format, how would Lix be able to interpret this? > Lix adds a version control system on top of SQL databases that let's you query virtual tables like file, file_history, etc. via plain SQL. These table's are version controlled. What does SQL have to do with everything?
- samuelstros 8mo agoThanks for the feedback. AI agents are the pull right now to why version control is needed outside of software engineering. The mistake in the blog post is triggering comparisons to git, which leads to “why is this better/different than git?”. If you have a custom binary file, you can write a plugin for it! :) Lix runs on top of a SQL database because we initially built lix on top of git but needed: - database semantics (transactions, acid, etc.) - SQL to express history queries (diffing arbitrary file formats cant be solved with a simple diff() API)
- dev_l1x_be 8mo agoGreat name! :)
- mrgoldenbrown 8mo agoHome page states Lix can diff. "any file format like .xlsx, .pdf, .docx" Wow, sounds useful. Git doesn't do that out of the box. BUT... the list of available "plugins" only has .csv,.md and json, which are things that git already handles just fine? Can it actually diff excel and word and PDF or not?
- samuelstros 8mo agoIt can but the plugins are not developed for production readiness yet. I should clarify that. The way to write a plugin: Take an off the shelf parser for pdf, docx, etc. and write a lix plugin. The moment a plugin parses a binary file into structured data, lix can handle the version control stuff.
- mackross 8mo agoSame name as my Phoenix inspired framework for go: https://codeberg.org/lixgo/lix https://codeberg.org/lixgo/lix