5 ms·

Frank Llyod Wright lacking warmth and humanity? Never been to Falling Water?

ericmay 8mo ago
I’ve never been but the photos I’ve seen I would describe as lacking warmth and humanity. Maybe my opinion would change seeing it in person. I’m open to that. But the other issue with that property specifically is that it seems to be that it is built out of fear of humanity and that’s why elements of the property (again from photos) look like what you’d see in a bunker or if you were trying to hide. It lacks symmetry as well which introduces fear. You can think of it as how one might feel looking at a painting of Dance in the Country by Renoir and Guernica by Picasso. If you find the former to be near perfection, full of vibrancy, warmth, and love you may as I do find Picasso’s work to be chaotic, disheveled, asymmetric, or even psychotic.
- relaxing 8mo ago
  You think Frank Lloyd Wright designed big picture windows and open floor plans because he was afraid of humanity? He was afraid so he tried to induce fear? Through asymmetry? What then of William Blake’s “fearful symmetry”? Amazing that FLW is still traumatizing conservatives 100 years later. Ayn Rand was a fan, didn’t you know? Picasso was trying to convey the feeling of being bombed from the sky in a civil war, so at least your reading there is accurate.
  - ericmay 8mo ago
    > You think Frank Lloyd Wright designed big picture windows and open floor plans because he was afraid of humanity? He was afraid so he tried to induce fear? No, I was speaking about the exterior. The blending in of the surroundings, and hiding of things like the entrance are the hallmark of post-war architectural trends. Not that I'm claiming Lloyd suffered from the same PTSD that returning American veterans did, but his building follows some of the same patterns. For example, here: where's the door? http://www.wright-house.com/frank-lloyd-wright/fallingwater-pictures/large-fallingwater-photos/high-resolution/7x-front-door-east-end-L.jpg http://www.wright-house.com/frank-lloyd-wright/fallingwater-... But moving to the widows, even from that photo you can see how while the interior gives the occupants a nice view, the exterior hides them - sort of like a bunker. > Through asymmetry? What then of William Blake’s “fearful symmetry”? Idk, can you elaborate? We know as a matter of scientific study that asymmetry in architectural design introduces stress, let me know if you'd like a source in case you are curious. > Amazing that FLW is still traumatizing conservatives 100 years later. Ayn Rand was a fan, didn’t you know? I don't understand this comment. Why would I care what Ayn Rand thinks or thought? > Picasso was trying to convey the feeling of being bombed from the sky in a civil war, so at least your reading there is accurate. Sure. But in that interpretation I find cold, calculating, death, and fear. None of which I find particularly attractive in art. And Picasso in these years is probably the best "good" example of this style of art. Afterwards it gets more and more psychotic to the point where you've got the whole banana taped to a wall for $6 million. Western artists have forgotten what art is and what the purpose of it is, in my opinion.
    - amanaplanacanal 8mo ago
      Yes please, for the sources on assymetrical architecture and stress. That's totally new to me, and I'd love to read about it.
      - ericmay 8mo ago
        Cognitive Architecture by Ann Sussman is probably the best single book about this topic that I've found. https://annsussman.com https://annsussman.com You may find this lecture of interest. I'm sorry I don't have anything shorter to read offhand. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPjezxPl3FA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPjezxPl3FA -edit- This might get you closer though to the general theory: https://asla-ncc.org/the-built-environment-impacts-our-health-and-happiness-more-than-we-know/ https://asla-ncc.org/the-built-environment-impacts-our-healt...
        amanaplanacanal 8mo ago
        Thank you! I read the article in your edit, and the point about symmetry seems unrelated to the rest of the article, and doesn't mention any science. I'll have to research further. Intuitively it doesn't resonate with me. The environment humans evolved in (the natural world) doesn't have much of anything symmetrical, unless it was built by humans.
        ericmay 8mo ago
        I'll see if I can find a better article. I think it's unfair for someone including me to say "go read a book" though the meat of the general theory is there in those books. The research and science being done is measuring levels of stress relative to shapes and designs of buildings through eye-tracking software. So to really over-simplify, buildings that are asymmetrical or perhaps where the door is hard to find, or in some urban environments there specific features that cause stress and it is measurable. > The environment humans evolved in (the natural world) doesn't have much of anything symmetrical, unless it was built by humans. https://www.sciencekids.co.nz/images/pictures/plants/flower.jpg https://www.sciencekids.co.nz/images/pictures/plants/flower....
- shoxidizer 8mo ago
  It's certainly better in person, but if you hate the photos you probably won't love it. In particular, the interior: is cozier (smaller) than it looks, as the ceilings are a bit low; has better views of the outside when not stuck to a single exposure & focus of a camera.
  - ericmay 8mo ago
    I would definitely check it out if I was nearby or if it was on the way somewhere to see what the hype is all about. There’s always something to learn.
IAmBroom 8mo ago
I love FLW, and Falling Water (which I've toured), but yeah: his art tends to be cold, abrupt, and ... unsnuggly.
- eszed 8mo ago
  The only FLW building I've been inside is the Marin Civic Center, and I'd call it the opposite of cold and abrupt. The outside is... weird - and, yeah, the roof leaks, and not all the doors open and close all the way and it costs an absolute bomb to heat and cool - but the inside is full of natural light and wood surfaces and quirky details. I walked around thinking it would be an incredibly pleasant building in which to work. BTW, Gattica only used the exterior, and I think the entry hall - which they lit very cold. The rest of their interiors were sets, and the vibe of the actual building is (appropriately for the film, but misleadingly for people - like me! - who judged it by that) pretty much the exact opposite of what you'd expect if something like the film is what you think it would be.

I’ve never been but the photos I’ve seen I would describe as lacking warmth and humanity. Maybe my opinion would change seeing it in person. I’m open to that. But the other issue with that property specifically is that it seems to be that it is built out of fear of humanity and that’s why elements of the property (again from photos) look like what you’d see in a bunker or if you were trying to hide. It lacks symmetry as well which introduces fear. You can think of it as how one might feel looking at a painting of Dance in the Country by Renoir and Guernica by Picasso. If you find the former to be near perfection, full of vibrancy, warmth, and love you may as I do find Picasso’s work to be chaotic, disheveled, asymmetric, or even psychotic.

relaxing 8mo ago
You think Frank Lloyd Wright designed big picture windows and open floor plans because he was afraid of humanity? He was afraid so he tried to induce fear? Through asymmetry? What then of William Blake’s “fearful symmetry”? Amazing that FLW is still traumatizing conservatives 100 years later. Ayn Rand was a fan, didn’t you know? Picasso was trying to convey the feeling of being bombed from the sky in a civil war, so at least your reading there is accurate.
- ericmay 8mo ago
  > You think Frank Lloyd Wright designed big picture windows and open floor plans because he was afraid of humanity? He was afraid so he tried to induce fear? No, I was speaking about the exterior. The blending in of the surroundings, and hiding of things like the entrance are the hallmark of post-war architectural trends. Not that I'm claiming Lloyd suffered from the same PTSD that returning American veterans did, but his building follows some of the same patterns. For example, here: where's the door? http://www.wright-house.com/frank-lloyd-wright/fallingwater-pictures/large-fallingwater-photos/high-resolution/7x-front-door-east-end-L.jpg http://www.wright-house.com/frank-lloyd-wright/fallingwater-... But moving to the widows, even from that photo you can see how while the interior gives the occupants a nice view, the exterior hides them - sort of like a bunker. > Through asymmetry? What then of William Blake’s “fearful symmetry”? Idk, can you elaborate? We know as a matter of scientific study that asymmetry in architectural design introduces stress, let me know if you'd like a source in case you are curious. > Amazing that FLW is still traumatizing conservatives 100 years later. Ayn Rand was a fan, didn’t you know? I don't understand this comment. Why would I care what Ayn Rand thinks or thought? > Picasso was trying to convey the feeling of being bombed from the sky in a civil war, so at least your reading there is accurate. Sure. But in that interpretation I find cold, calculating, death, and fear. None of which I find particularly attractive in art. And Picasso in these years is probably the best "good" example of this style of art. Afterwards it gets more and more psychotic to the point where you've got the whole banana taped to a wall for $6 million. Western artists have forgotten what art is and what the purpose of it is, in my opinion.
  - amanaplanacanal 8mo ago
    Yes please, for the sources on assymetrical architecture and stress. That's totally new to me, and I'd love to read about it.
    - ericmay 8mo ago
      Cognitive Architecture by Ann Sussman is probably the best single book about this topic that I've found. https://annsussman.com https://annsussman.com You may find this lecture of interest. I'm sorry I don't have anything shorter to read offhand. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPjezxPl3FA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPjezxPl3FA -edit- This might get you closer though to the general theory: https://asla-ncc.org/the-built-environment-impacts-our-health-and-happiness-more-than-we-know/ https://asla-ncc.org/the-built-environment-impacts-our-healt...
      - amanaplanacanal 8mo ago
        Thank you! I read the article in your edit, and the point about symmetry seems unrelated to the rest of the article, and doesn't mention any science. I'll have to research further. Intuitively it doesn't resonate with me. The environment humans evolved in (the natural world) doesn't have much of anything symmetrical, unless it was built by humans.
        ericmay 8mo ago
        I'll see if I can find a better article. I think it's unfair for someone including me to say "go read a book" though the meat of the general theory is there in those books. The research and science being done is measuring levels of stress relative to shapes and designs of buildings through eye-tracking software. So to really over-simplify, buildings that are asymmetrical or perhaps where the door is hard to find, or in some urban environments there specific features that cause stress and it is measurable. > The environment humans evolved in (the natural world) doesn't have much of anything symmetrical, unless it was built by humans. https://www.sciencekids.co.nz/images/pictures/plants/flower.jpg https://www.sciencekids.co.nz/images/pictures/plants/flower....
shoxidizer 8mo ago
It's certainly better in person, but if you hate the photos you probably won't love it. In particular, the interior: is cozier (smaller) than it looks, as the ceilings are a bit low; has better views of the outside when not stuck to a single exposure & focus of a camera.
- ericmay 8mo ago
  I would definitely check it out if I was nearby or if it was on the way somewhere to see what the hype is all about. There’s always something to learn.

IAmBroom 8mo ago

I love FLW, and Falling Water (which I've toured), but yeah: his art tends to be cold, abrupt, and ... unsnuggly.

eszed 8mo ago
The only FLW building I've been inside is the Marin Civic Center, and I'd call it the opposite of cold and abrupt. The outside is... weird - and, yeah, the roof leaks, and not all the doors open and close all the way and it costs an absolute bomb to heat and cool - but the inside is full of natural light and wood surfaces and quirky details. I walked around thinking it would be an incredibly pleasant building in which to work. BTW, Gattica only used the exterior, and I think the entry hall - which they lit very cold. The rest of their interiors were sets, and the vibe of the actual building is (appropriately for the film, but misleadingly for people - like me! - who judged it by that) pretty much the exact opposite of what you'd expect if something like the film is what you think it would be.