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> And why shouldn't it when there is zero negative ramifications for being completely fucking unethical? This is at the crux of everything in America. There ar

> And why shouldn't it when there is zero negative ramifications for being completely fucking unethical? This is at the crux of everything in America. There are zero punishments for corporations and executives but there are bureaucratic lock ins for "customers". And the answer is not merely regulation. Why shouldn't I be able to switch health insurance at ANY time? If I am unsatisfied with United Healthcare, I should be able to get anything else right away. Why impose laws on me?

lotsofpulp 8mo ago
Health insurers are required to accept all insureds without pricing the insured’s risks. It would increase premiums a lot if people could bounce around, as it would make already difficult to forecast medical loss ratios even more volatile. This really is a problem only the government can solve, by continuously auditing coverage decisions at random, and sufficiently penalizing the companies that understaff at best, and intentionally deny or delay payment at worst. Currently, years might go by until CMS audits the company, and even then, there are no consequences. Try arguing for a higher budget for more $400k doctors and $200k pharmacists in this environment. The current situation is because one company can lower premiums by reducing quality of service, all the other ones have to also, and the buyer rarely buys on anything but price since it’s usually a third party buying it, like an employer.
- FireBeyond 8mo ago
  > Health insurers are required to accept all insureds without pricing the insured’s risks. It would increase premiums a lot if people could bounce around, as it would make already difficult to forecast medical loss ratios even more volatile. It's almost as if there is nothing insurance-like about US health "insurance" but the name. Picture health insurance models laid on top of your car. Imagine your car gets totaled: Your insurer says, "Hey, we're going to pay out $25,000 for your vehicle. So you have a $1,000 deductible, so that's $24,000, and then your copay for a total loss is $2,000, so that brings us down to $22,000. For total losses, your coinsurance as your contribution for your vehicle coverage is 20%, which is $5,000, so here's a check for $17,000. Buttttt... that's only if you're buying a Hyundai, otherwise the vehicle is out of network and you'll get a check for $8,500 instead."
  - lotsofpulp 8mo ago
    US health insurance premiums are not insurance-like, as they are mostly a tax due to the forced wealth redistribution. US health insurance coverage is very insurance-like, due to the out of pocket maximum. Determining auto insurance coverage is very simple, because fixing/replacing cars is simple. Determining health insurance coverage can't be simple, because fixing bodies is not simple. It's unknown what will and will not fix issues, how to even measure if there is an issue, and what will cause more issues and the cost/benefit of that fix. The people who can fix the issue are a lot more rare and in demand than the people who can fix automobiles. Also, the medicine is patented, and the seller of the medicine wants to be able to charge different prices to different buyers, hence all the games.
    - FireBeyond 8mo ago
      > US health insurance coverage is very insurance-like, due to the out of pocket maximum. Well, other than that whole "out of network" thing... > Determining health insurance coverage can't be simple, because fixing bodies is not simple. It's unknown what will and will not fix issues, how to even measure if there is an issue, and what will cause more issues and the cost/benefit of that fix. Don't disagree - but that doesn't make what we have more "insurance-like".
      - lotsofpulp 8mo ago
        What is the alternative to a network? Auto insurers, home insurers, all kinds of insurance relies on negotiating prices with sellers. Insurance cannot work if any seller can send a bill for any amount to the insurer and be owed that amount.
        FireBeyond 8mo ago
        I mean for most auto and home insurers, the "negotiated price" is a pretty loose thing. My insurer might ask for a quote from someone in their "preferred network" but I can get a quote from anyone I want to do the work, and if it's within x% of the preferred quote, it's automatically approved, otherwise someone from the insurer calls them and asks about the different pricing, and I've generally got that approval within 24-48 hours. (Which has also worked in my favor - with an auto glass claim, their repairer was insistent that third party glass would work fine, despite the HUD, but the other was able to demonstrate to the insurer that OEM glass was required). Mostly this all boils down to "the healthcare industry in the US needs to be comprehensively revamped in any one of several different ways or methodologies, but likely won't be".
Aurornis 8mo ago
The reason insurance companies have specific sign-up windows and enrollment periods is because the insurance model breaks down if anyone could switch at any time. If someone could get the cheapest plan when they're healthy and then go switch to the best plan as soon as they started getting sick with something, everyone would do exactly that. Insurance companies are required to accept patients regardless of pre-existing conditions, so there has to be something counter-balancing that to prevent people from only getting good insurance when they plan to use it.
- nine_zeros 8mo ago
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lotsofpulp 8mo ago

Health insurers are required to accept all insureds without pricing the insured’s risks. It would increase premiums a lot if people could bounce around, as it would make already difficult to forecast medical loss ratios even more volatile. This really is a problem only the government can solve, by continuously auditing coverage decisions at random, and sufficiently penalizing the companies that understaff at best, and intentionally deny or delay payment at worst. Currently, years might go by until CMS audits the company, and even then, there are no consequences. Try arguing for a higher budget for more $400k doctors and $200k pharmacists in this environment. The current situation is because one company can lower premiums by reducing quality of service, all the other ones have to also, and the buyer rarely buys on anything but price since it’s usually a third party buying it, like an employer.

FireBeyond 8mo ago
> Health insurers are required to accept all insureds without pricing the insured’s risks. It would increase premiums a lot if people could bounce around, as it would make already difficult to forecast medical loss ratios even more volatile. It's almost as if there is nothing insurance-like about US health "insurance" but the name. Picture health insurance models laid on top of your car. Imagine your car gets totaled: Your insurer says, "Hey, we're going to pay out $25,000 for your vehicle. So you have a $1,000 deductible, so that's $24,000, and then your copay for a total loss is $2,000, so that brings us down to $22,000. For total losses, your coinsurance as your contribution for your vehicle coverage is 20%, which is $5,000, so here's a check for $17,000. Buttttt... that's only if you're buying a Hyundai, otherwise the vehicle is out of network and you'll get a check for $8,500 instead."
- lotsofpulp 8mo ago
  US health insurance premiums are not insurance-like, as they are mostly a tax due to the forced wealth redistribution. US health insurance coverage is very insurance-like, due to the out of pocket maximum. Determining auto insurance coverage is very simple, because fixing/replacing cars is simple. Determining health insurance coverage can't be simple, because fixing bodies is not simple. It's unknown what will and will not fix issues, how to even measure if there is an issue, and what will cause more issues and the cost/benefit of that fix. The people who can fix the issue are a lot more rare and in demand than the people who can fix automobiles. Also, the medicine is patented, and the seller of the medicine wants to be able to charge different prices to different buyers, hence all the games.
  - FireBeyond 8mo ago
    > US health insurance coverage is very insurance-like, due to the out of pocket maximum. Well, other than that whole "out of network" thing... > Determining health insurance coverage can't be simple, because fixing bodies is not simple. It's unknown what will and will not fix issues, how to even measure if there is an issue, and what will cause more issues and the cost/benefit of that fix. Don't disagree - but that doesn't make what we have more "insurance-like".
    - lotsofpulp 8mo ago
      What is the alternative to a network? Auto insurers, home insurers, all kinds of insurance relies on negotiating prices with sellers. Insurance cannot work if any seller can send a bill for any amount to the insurer and be owed that amount.
      - FireBeyond 8mo ago
        I mean for most auto and home insurers, the "negotiated price" is a pretty loose thing. My insurer might ask for a quote from someone in their "preferred network" but I can get a quote from anyone I want to do the work, and if it's within x% of the preferred quote, it's automatically approved, otherwise someone from the insurer calls them and asks about the different pricing, and I've generally got that approval within 24-48 hours. (Which has also worked in my favor - with an auto glass claim, their repairer was insistent that third party glass would work fine, despite the HUD, but the other was able to demonstrate to the insurer that OEM glass was required). Mostly this all boils down to "the healthcare industry in the US needs to be comprehensively revamped in any one of several different ways or methodologies, but likely won't be".

Aurornis 8mo ago

The reason insurance companies have specific sign-up windows and enrollment periods is because the insurance model breaks down if anyone could switch at any time. If someone could get the cheapest plan when they're healthy and then go switch to the best plan as soon as they started getting sick with something, everyone would do exactly that. Insurance companies are required to accept patients regardless of pre-existing conditions, so there has to be something counter-balancing that to prevent people from only getting good insurance when they plan to use it.

nine_zeros 8mo ago
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