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You're out of touch with the working class. Some people practically live in these trucks. A little comfort goes a long way toward making their day bearable. Lea

You're out of touch with the working class. Some people practically live in these trucks. A little comfort goes a long way toward making their day bearable. Leather is easy to clean, power adjustment makes the seat more comfortable. Auto wipers, climate, etc., help them focus on the calls they're taking. And so on. Fleets of these are bought for commercial purposes as well. Companies wouldn't spend that kind of money without a reason. There's a reason these "luxobarges" are the best selling vehicle in the U.S., and the answer is not virtue signaling.

napkinartist 8mo ago
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kulahan 8mo ago
Brother, people are scraping by right now. Auto loan defaults are nearing all-time highs. Car loan lengths are longer than ever. The average age of a vehicle on the road is something like 14 years old now. I promise you with all my heart, those luxobarges are not being purchased because they’re practical in any way, shape, or form. It’s 110% virtue signaling. I don’t get the recent internet trend of trying to excuse any bad behavior by saying it’s all actually very logical and simply a tragedy of reality. Nobody is buying a gigantic vehicle because it has seats that are easy to clean. Nobody is buying an expensive ride because they just NEED those auto rain wipers. People are bad with money, and keeping up with the Joneses has always been a high priority in American culture. I see people making $20-25/hr driving brand new Cadillac SUVs. I talk to my car selling friends, and they have the loan rates for 6-10 years memorized, not 3-5 years. Nobody does those anymore. Of course there is an enormous amount of virtue signaling around cars. It’s one of the strongest social signals people purchase.
- PunchyHamster 8mo ago
  > I promise you with all my heart, those luxobarges are not being purchased because they’re practical in any way, shape, or form. It’s 110% virtue signaling. not sure virtue signalling is best description here. I think "conspicuous consumption" is far better description of the process
  - NoGravitas 8mo ago
    Indeed, in a sense it might even be better referred to as "vice signalling".
  - kulahan 8mo ago
    You're absolutely correct, thank you.
- mlrtime 8mo ago
  >Brother, people are scraping by right now Yes some are, but not everyone with a big truck. I'm in truck country and most people can afford their big trucks no problem at all. It's not virtue signaling, they are do-everything cars. Nothing else beats them. You can go to a off-road work site during the day, and take it downtown for dinner after. Lots of people are making good money and can easily afford them.
- Nextgrid 8mo ago
  > they have the loan rates for 6-10 years memorized, not 3-5 years Playing Devil's Advocate, if you're going to be fucked either way, why not be fucked and have a nice truck than not? It seems like, at least from an uninformed EU perspective, that if the "system" gives you the ability to get a big truck for no worse off that if you weren't going to get it, why wouldn't you? It seems like auto manufacturers overly inflated their prices, and the loan issuers are mopping up said inflation back - so in the end the borrower (at least if poor and they're going to default either way) is better off getting more truck for their buck than less.
  - kulahan 8mo ago
    Because most people who are fucked, are fucked due to terrible money spending habits. Tons and tons of people who make six figures are living paycheck to paycheck. Not because they must but because they won't stop spending poorly. Again, I don't understand the desperate internet trend of defending terrible choices by focusing on the, like, 0.001% of people who do everything right and still fail. We've got the highest living standards on the planet. It's absolutely a choice.
    - Nextgrid 8mo ago
      I was hoping for some genuine counterpoints but this just feels like a rant? It feels like the stereotypical response that millennials could afford property if only they didn’t spend their money on avocado toast at Starbucks. Let’s say a normal car costs you $200/month and a big truck costs 400. 200 is not going to make a difference in your situation - you are either good either way or close to breaking point and therefore fucked either way (if not this month, then the next one when you have an unexpected large expense). If you’re fucked, why not take advantage as much as possible and get the most truck for your buck? Well “your buck” in quotes but you get my point. If my budget was at breaking point and for only 200 bucks extra (one time payment since I’m gonna default next month) you can bet I’m gonna take advantage and get another ~20k worth of truck that I’ll get to keep until the bankruptcy proceedings complete (at which point the extra would’ve depreciated off anyway). Or is there something I’m missing?
- themafia 8mo ago
  > I promise you with all my heart You have such a deep misanthropic view that it's prevented you from seeing anything outside of it. You're preaching a faith not practicing an understanding of the world. > Nobody is buying a gigantic vehicle There are tons of contractors, laborers, small business and property owners who need the space or the utility of the vehicle. The reason these vehicles sell well is because they come in _tons_ of configurations. > because it has seats that are easy to clean No, that's why the manufacturer puts them in there, it helps them sell more vehicles by expanding their options. > People are bad with money Just.. like.. universally? Then how do you explain the number of billionaires and millionaires in this country? Let me guess.. from your heart it's 110% graft and corruption and 0% skill and sense and building wealth? > I talk to my car selling friends, Who has "car selling friends?" Your access to anecdotal information may not be helping you. > It’s one of the strongest social signals people purchase. We know this.. how?
  - arcticbull 8mo ago
    > According to Edwards’ data, 75 percent of truck owners use their truck for towing one time a year or less (meaning, never). Nearly 70 percent of truck owners go off-road one time a year or less. And a full 35 percent of truck owners use their truck for hauling—putting something in the bed, its ostensible raison d’être—once a year or less. > So what do people actually like about trucks? According to Edwards, the answer is counterintuitive. Truck drivers use their trucks very much like other car owners: for commuting to and from work, presumably alone. The thing that most distinguishes truck owners from those of other vehicles is their sheer love of driving. “The highest indexed use among truck owners is pleasure driving,” says Edwards. Truck drivers use their vehicles this way fully twice as often as the industry average. “This is the freedom that trucks offer,” says Edwards. https://www.thedrive.com/news/26907/you-dont-need-a-full-size-pickup-truck-you-need-a-cowboy-costume https://www.thedrive.com/news/26907/you-dont-need-a-full-siz... The F-series is the best selling car family in the US. Some of them are using it for its intended purpose sure, the majority are just using it as parent said, a luxobarge.
    - parineum 8mo ago
      > the majority are just using it as parent said, a luxobarge 25% use it for towing. 30% use it off road. 65% use it for hauling. Obviously there's overlap but how many people do none of those three? It's less than 35% which is not a majority.
omnimus 8mo ago
Maybe you are out of touch. I bet even many people here think it's mainly virtue signaling. I mean… do any of the commercial services in US use pickup trucks? It seems to all be vans? Why not to get a van then as a contractor?
- NoGravitas 8mo ago
  Here (southeast US), lawn services use pickups, often also with a trailer. Most other services (plumbing, electrical, HVAC) use vans. Less sure about contractors, I interact with them less.
- cheschire 8mo ago
  I see commercial lawn services driving in pickups a lot. It's a job that benefits from the open bed.
  - fc417fc802 8mo ago
    I tend to see them with either flatbed, trailer, or both. Occasionally box van plus trailer. Not usually a pickup and certainly not a luxury one. I don't understand why flatbeds aren't more popular here. (Well if we assume that pickups aren't actually for utility then I guess it makes sense.)
    - mlrtime 8mo ago
      You still need to tow. You need body on frame, not the van unibody junk.
- deleted 8mo ago
  [deleted]
- queuebert 8mo ago
  Most commercial services near me use trucks with or without a trailer. Painters tend to use vans, and some electricians. Everyone else has a truck with a logo on it. You can't tow well with a van, so it has to be a company that never tows. Granted probably most people on here are CA or SV adjacent, which has a fairly idiosyncratic relationship with its service industries and stricter emissions regs.
alexjplant 8mo ago
Those aren't the people I'm talking about in my post and they aren't the primary buyers of the vehicles I'm describing.
acdha 8mo ago
On the out of touch point, I will just note that every time we drive to West Virginia or Pennsylvania you can see when you leave the rich exurbs because it goes from $80k vanity trucks to fuel and maintenance efficient sedans, old Toyotas and vans, and the heavy trucks guys like welders use. There is zero question that they’re using those trucks from the wear patterns, whereas the luxury trucks in the areas where the average house is a million plus are spotless. It’s not “virtue signaling”, it’s lifestyle messaging like wearing cowboy boots or walking around with DJ headphones as if you’re going to drop a set after the morning standup.
Nextgrid 8mo ago
But I think the Venn diagram of "people who can afford these new trucks" and "people who live in their truck" is two completely separate circles.

napkinartist 8mo ago

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kulahan 8mo ago

Brother, people are scraping by right now. Auto loan defaults are nearing all-time highs. Car loan lengths are longer than ever. The average age of a vehicle on the road is something like 14 years old now. I promise you with all my heart, those luxobarges are not being purchased because they’re practical in any way, shape, or form. It’s 110% virtue signaling. I don’t get the recent internet trend of trying to excuse any bad behavior by saying it’s all actually very logical and simply a tragedy of reality. Nobody is buying a gigantic vehicle because it has seats that are easy to clean. Nobody is buying an expensive ride because they just NEED those auto rain wipers. People are bad with money, and keeping up with the Joneses has always been a high priority in American culture. I see people making $20-25/hr driving brand new Cadillac SUVs. I talk to my car selling friends, and they have the loan rates for 6-10 years memorized, not 3-5 years. Nobody does those anymore. Of course there is an enormous amount of virtue signaling around cars. It’s one of the strongest social signals people purchase.

PunchyHamster 8mo ago
> I promise you with all my heart, those luxobarges are not being purchased because they’re practical in any way, shape, or form. It’s 110% virtue signaling. not sure virtue signalling is best description here. I think "conspicuous consumption" is far better description of the process
- NoGravitas 8mo ago
  Indeed, in a sense it might even be better referred to as "vice signalling".
- kulahan 8mo ago
  You're absolutely correct, thank you.
mlrtime 8mo ago
>Brother, people are scraping by right now Yes some are, but not everyone with a big truck. I'm in truck country and most people can afford their big trucks no problem at all. It's not virtue signaling, they are do-everything cars. Nothing else beats them. You can go to a off-road work site during the day, and take it downtown for dinner after. Lots of people are making good money and can easily afford them.
Nextgrid 8mo ago
> they have the loan rates for 6-10 years memorized, not 3-5 years Playing Devil's Advocate, if you're going to be fucked either way, why not be fucked and have a nice truck than not? It seems like, at least from an uninformed EU perspective, that if the "system" gives you the ability to get a big truck for no worse off that if you weren't going to get it, why wouldn't you? It seems like auto manufacturers overly inflated their prices, and the loan issuers are mopping up said inflation back - so in the end the borrower (at least if poor and they're going to default either way) is better off getting more truck for their buck than less.
- kulahan 8mo ago
  Because most people who are fucked, are fucked due to terrible money spending habits. Tons and tons of people who make six figures are living paycheck to paycheck. Not because they must but because they won't stop spending poorly. Again, I don't understand the desperate internet trend of defending terrible choices by focusing on the, like, 0.001% of people who do everything right and still fail. We've got the highest living standards on the planet. It's absolutely a choice.
  - Nextgrid 8mo ago
    I was hoping for some genuine counterpoints but this just feels like a rant? It feels like the stereotypical response that millennials could afford property if only they didn’t spend their money on avocado toast at Starbucks. Let’s say a normal car costs you $200/month and a big truck costs 400. 200 is not going to make a difference in your situation - you are either good either way or close to breaking point and therefore fucked either way (if not this month, then the next one when you have an unexpected large expense). If you’re fucked, why not take advantage as much as possible and get the most truck for your buck? Well “your buck” in quotes but you get my point. If my budget was at breaking point and for only 200 bucks extra (one time payment since I’m gonna default next month) you can bet I’m gonna take advantage and get another ~20k worth of truck that I’ll get to keep until the bankruptcy proceedings complete (at which point the extra would’ve depreciated off anyway). Or is there something I’m missing?
themafia 8mo ago
> I promise you with all my heart You have such a deep misanthropic view that it's prevented you from seeing anything outside of it. You're preaching a faith not practicing an understanding of the world. > Nobody is buying a gigantic vehicle There are tons of contractors, laborers, small business and property owners who need the space or the utility of the vehicle. The reason these vehicles sell well is because they come in _tons_ of configurations. > because it has seats that are easy to clean No, that's why the manufacturer puts them in there, it helps them sell more vehicles by expanding their options. > People are bad with money Just.. like.. universally? Then how do you explain the number of billionaires and millionaires in this country? Let me guess.. from your heart it's 110% graft and corruption and 0% skill and sense and building wealth? > I talk to my car selling friends, Who has "car selling friends?" Your access to anecdotal information may not be helping you. > It’s one of the strongest social signals people purchase. We know this.. how?
- arcticbull 8mo ago
  > According to Edwards’ data, 75 percent of truck owners use their truck for towing one time a year or less (meaning, never). Nearly 70 percent of truck owners go off-road one time a year or less. And a full 35 percent of truck owners use their truck for hauling—putting something in the bed, its ostensible raison d’être—once a year or less. > So what do people actually like about trucks? According to Edwards, the answer is counterintuitive. Truck drivers use their trucks very much like other car owners: for commuting to and from work, presumably alone. The thing that most distinguishes truck owners from those of other vehicles is their sheer love of driving. “The highest indexed use among truck owners is pleasure driving,” says Edwards. Truck drivers use their vehicles this way fully twice as often as the industry average. “This is the freedom that trucks offer,” says Edwards. https://www.thedrive.com/news/26907/you-dont-need-a-full-size-pickup-truck-you-need-a-cowboy-costume https://www.thedrive.com/news/26907/you-dont-need-a-full-siz... The F-series is the best selling car family in the US. Some of them are using it for its intended purpose sure, the majority are just using it as parent said, a luxobarge.
  - parineum 8mo ago
    > the majority are just using it as parent said, a luxobarge 25% use it for towing. 30% use it off road. 65% use it for hauling. Obviously there's overlap but how many people do none of those three? It's less than 35% which is not a majority.

omnimus 8mo ago

Maybe you are out of touch. I bet even many people here think it's mainly virtue signaling. I mean… do any of the commercial services in US use pickup trucks? It seems to all be vans? Why not to get a van then as a contractor?

NoGravitas 8mo ago
Here (southeast US), lawn services use pickups, often also with a trailer. Most other services (plumbing, electrical, HVAC) use vans. Less sure about contractors, I interact with them less.
cheschire 8mo ago
I see commercial lawn services driving in pickups a lot. It's a job that benefits from the open bed.
- fc417fc802 8mo ago
  I tend to see them with either flatbed, trailer, or both. Occasionally box van plus trailer. Not usually a pickup and certainly not a luxury one. I don't understand why flatbeds aren't more popular here. (Well if we assume that pickups aren't actually for utility then I guess it makes sense.)
  - mlrtime 8mo ago
    You still need to tow. You need body on frame, not the van unibody junk.
deleted 8mo ago
[deleted]
queuebert 8mo ago
Most commercial services near me use trucks with or without a trailer. Painters tend to use vans, and some electricians. Everyone else has a truck with a logo on it. You can't tow well with a van, so it has to be a company that never tows. Granted probably most people on here are CA or SV adjacent, which has a fairly idiosyncratic relationship with its service industries and stricter emissions regs.

alexjplant 8mo ago

Those aren't the people I'm talking about in my post and they aren't the primary buyers of the vehicles I'm describing.

acdha 8mo ago

On the out of touch point, I will just note that every time we drive to West Virginia or Pennsylvania you can see when you leave the rich exurbs because it goes from $80k vanity trucks to fuel and maintenance efficient sedans, old Toyotas and vans, and the heavy trucks guys like welders use. There is zero question that they’re using those trucks from the wear patterns, whereas the luxury trucks in the areas where the average house is a million plus are spotless. It’s not “virtue signaling”, it’s lifestyle messaging like wearing cowboy boots or walking around with DJ headphones as if you’re going to drop a set after the morning standup.

Nextgrid 8mo ago

But I think the Venn diagram of "people who can afford these new trucks" and "people who live in their truck" is two completely separate circles.