10 ms·

paper straws do not make any sense any way you look at it. Are we saying that we are okay to cut trees to make straws when we could make them out of petroleum ?

paper straws do not make any sense any way you look at it. Are we saying that we are okay to cut trees to make straws when we could make them out of petroleum ? Moreover, paper straws are not even recyclable due to water content which makes them soggy. Plastic ones are almost 100% recyclable Most importantly, unlike plastic straws, they are laced with glue and other chemicals which gets ingested.

injidup 8mo ago
Soggy is not a problem.Recycling paper involves wetting it to loose the fibres and then reforming it. It's how paper is made.
- ulrikrasmussen 8mo ago
  But usually paper and cardboard that has been in contact with food is not recyclable because it contaminates the batch. That's why pizza boxes also cannot go into the cardboard/paper fraction.
  - vanviegen 8mo ago
    No, that's because pizza boxes are contaminated with fat. That messes up the paper recycling process. Water is fine.
    - GCUMstlyHarmls 8mo ago
      Man, if that's the problem then I can only assume any fast food box is not recyclable too?
      - teiferer 8mo ago
        The point of paper fast food boxes is not to recycle them but to have no trash in the end as they just burn or rot, all in a sustainable way. In contrast to plastic.
- bluescrn 8mo ago
  > Soggy is not a problem. It is when you're trying to suck a thick milkshake through one, though...
vanviegen 8mo ago
> Are we saying that we are okay to cut trees to make straws when we could make them out of petroleum ? Uhh.. yes? Trees can be grown, just like any agriculture product. > Plastic ones are almost 100% recyclable In theory. However that rarely works out in practice, due to the complications of mixing various types of plastic in a single stream of garbage. > Most importantly, unlike plastic straws, they are laced with glue and other chemicals which gets ingested. The glue for paper straws will be a biodegradable water-based adhesive. It may be finished with natural wax. And that's it. I think you are intentionally spreading FUD saying glue and chemicals. That being said, I hate paper straws. I like bamboo straws though.
- bluGill 8mo ago
  Natural and biodegradable doesn't mean safe of human ingestion.
  - vanviegen 8mo ago
    And made from petroleum with many interesting additives does mean safe for human ingestion I suppose?
    - bluGill 8mo ago
      Maybe. Safe of ingestion means we have to know what happens in the body. Some plastics just pass right through and are safe; some biodegradable things are good food for the body. Some biodegradable things degrade to something harmful, and some plastics do get absored into the body and are harmful.
minitech 8mo ago
> Are we saying that we are okay to cut trees to make straws when we could make them out of petroleum ? It’s more okay to make things out of paper than plastic, yes. Plastic waste and microplastics are a huge problem. Trees are a renewable resource. > Moreover, paper straws are not even recyclable due to water content which makes them soggy. Plastic ones are almost 100% recyclable Plastic straws are almost never (literally never?) recycled. Paper straws are supposed to be fully biodegradable. > Most importantly, unlike plastic straws, they are laced with glue and other chemicals which gets ingested. But yes, this and the usability issue make the other points moot (n.b. leaching harmful chemicals is a concern that also applies to plastic straws and paper cups). The vast majority of existing straws should be replaced with no straw, and most beyond that with reusable straws.
- deleted 8mo ago
  [deleted]
teiferer 8mo ago
> Plastic ones are almost 100% recyclable Nope, that's a myth. Plastic is essentially unrecyclable. Some types of plastic can be made into "lower" quality types with lots of effort, but there is no circular reuse. The oil and plastic industries want to make you believe that this is all a solved problem, but it very much is not. In contrast, paper and wood products just rot away at the end of their life, and a new tree grows in their place.
- Findecanor 8mo ago
  Plastic does not have to be 100% recyclable for it to be economically viable. However, plastic straws are so small that I'd think most of them get tossed anyway.
- Saline9515 8mo ago
  It's not a myth, you can make new items using recycled plastics. Of course, the recycled plastic doesn't have the same properties, but it doesn't mean that it can't be useful to reduce plastic production. Most plastic items do not require pristine materials anyway. It's the same for paper and cardboard, and it's much better to reuse it as much as possible to avoid cutting a tree. Letting it rot releases the same amount of CO2 than burning it, by the way. https://plasticsrecycling.org/how-recycling-works/the-plastic-recycling-process/ https://plasticsrecycling.org/how-recycling-works/the-plasti...
  - volemo 8mo ago
    I'd argue it's kinda a myth, because I used to believe we could create a perfectly closed loop (you know, like the one the recycling symbol suggests) if only we could cleanly separate the materials (which in my imagination requires consumers to vigilantly separate the waste into dozens of different bins). I'm beginning to think I was wrong.
    - Saline9515 8mo ago
      If 1kg of "recycled" plastics allow to reduce the production of 1kg of pristine plastics, it's already a big win, even if it's downcycling. No need to throw away the baby with the bathwater.
vladvasiliu 8mo ago
Isn't this a bit like "paper" cups for coffee / water? We switched to these at work a few years ago, and it's an all-round horrible experience. I swear every other one leaks right away, and those that don't can only be refilled once or twice before they do. So you end up going through like 10 of those a day. I also don't know how "eco-friendly" they actually are, since there's a picture of a dead turtle on them under a text to the effect of "don't throw out in nature". I guess on the plus-side, our company at least provides ceramic cups to their internal employees. But since it's the employees' responsibility to clean them, not everybody is off the disposable cup train.
- sofixa 8mo ago
  > I swear every other one leaks right away, and those that don't can only be refilled once or twice before they do. So you end up going through like 10 of those a day Yeah, if you're using that many, the solution is, and always has been, to get a proper reusable cup (ceramic, glass, whatever).
  - vladvasiliu 8mo ago
    Right, but this just shows why these policies don't work in practice. People will just use 10 paper cups which are free, rather than cart around a big ceramic one. Especially in situations where people don't even have an assigned spot in the office anymore, it's not exactly shocking that many will choose the easier route.
- bluGill 8mo ago
  My company told everyone to bring their own mug, which they were expected to wash from time to time. Then they give mugs for "thanks for working here" awards once in a while so they can be sure everyone has one. Soap and a sink are provided near the coffee makers. Paper cups are still provided, but it is intended visitors not people who work in the building.
  - vladvasiliu 8mo ago
    But do people actually use them? That's the theory where I work, too, but most people just use paper cups.

injidup 8mo ago

Soggy is not a problem.Recycling paper involves wetting it to loose the fibres and then reforming it. It's how paper is made.

ulrikrasmussen 8mo ago
But usually paper and cardboard that has been in contact with food is not recyclable because it contaminates the batch. That's why pizza boxes also cannot go into the cardboard/paper fraction.
- vanviegen 8mo ago
  No, that's because pizza boxes are contaminated with fat. That messes up the paper recycling process. Water is fine.
  - GCUMstlyHarmls 8mo ago
    Man, if that's the problem then I can only assume any fast food box is not recyclable too?
    - teiferer 8mo ago
      The point of paper fast food boxes is not to recycle them but to have no trash in the end as they just burn or rot, all in a sustainable way. In contrast to plastic.
bluescrn 8mo ago
> Soggy is not a problem. It is when you're trying to suck a thick milkshake through one, though...

vanviegen 8mo ago

> Are we saying that we are okay to cut trees to make straws when we could make them out of petroleum ? Uhh.. yes? Trees can be grown, just like any agriculture product. > Plastic ones are almost 100% recyclable In theory. However that rarely works out in practice, due to the complications of mixing various types of plastic in a single stream of garbage. > Most importantly, unlike plastic straws, they are laced with glue and other chemicals which gets ingested. The glue for paper straws will be a biodegradable water-based adhesive. It may be finished with natural wax. And that's it. I think you are intentionally spreading FUD saying glue and chemicals. That being said, I hate paper straws. I like bamboo straws though.

bluGill 8mo ago
Natural and biodegradable doesn't mean safe of human ingestion.
- vanviegen 8mo ago
  And made from petroleum with many interesting additives does mean safe for human ingestion I suppose?
  - bluGill 8mo ago
    Maybe. Safe of ingestion means we have to know what happens in the body. Some plastics just pass right through and are safe; some biodegradable things are good food for the body. Some biodegradable things degrade to something harmful, and some plastics do get absored into the body and are harmful.

minitech 8mo ago

> Are we saying that we are okay to cut trees to make straws when we could make them out of petroleum ? It’s more okay to make things out of paper than plastic, yes. Plastic waste and microplastics are a huge problem. Trees are a renewable resource. > Moreover, paper straws are not even recyclable due to water content which makes them soggy. Plastic ones are almost 100% recyclable Plastic straws are almost never (literally never?) recycled. Paper straws are supposed to be fully biodegradable. > Most importantly, unlike plastic straws, they are laced with glue and other chemicals which gets ingested. But yes, this and the usability issue make the other points moot (n.b. leaching harmful chemicals is a concern that also applies to plastic straws and paper cups). The vast majority of existing straws should be replaced with no straw, and most beyond that with reusable straws.

deleted 8mo ago
[deleted]

teiferer 8mo ago

> Plastic ones are almost 100% recyclable Nope, that's a myth. Plastic is essentially unrecyclable. Some types of plastic can be made into "lower" quality types with lots of effort, but there is no circular reuse. The oil and plastic industries want to make you believe that this is all a solved problem, but it very much is not. In contrast, paper and wood products just rot away at the end of their life, and a new tree grows in their place.

Findecanor 8mo ago
Plastic does not have to be 100% recyclable for it to be economically viable. However, plastic straws are so small that I'd think most of them get tossed anyway.
Saline9515 8mo ago
It's not a myth, you can make new items using recycled plastics. Of course, the recycled plastic doesn't have the same properties, but it doesn't mean that it can't be useful to reduce plastic production. Most plastic items do not require pristine materials anyway. It's the same for paper and cardboard, and it's much better to reuse it as much as possible to avoid cutting a tree. Letting it rot releases the same amount of CO2 than burning it, by the way. https://plasticsrecycling.org/how-recycling-works/the-plastic-recycling-process/ https://plasticsrecycling.org/how-recycling-works/the-plasti...
- volemo 8mo ago
  I'd argue it's kinda a myth, because I used to believe we could create a perfectly closed loop (you know, like the one the recycling symbol suggests) if only we could cleanly separate the materials (which in my imagination requires consumers to vigilantly separate the waste into dozens of different bins). I'm beginning to think I was wrong.
  - Saline9515 8mo ago
    If 1kg of "recycled" plastics allow to reduce the production of 1kg of pristine plastics, it's already a big win, even if it's downcycling. No need to throw away the baby with the bathwater.

vladvasiliu 8mo ago

Isn't this a bit like "paper" cups for coffee / water? We switched to these at work a few years ago, and it's an all-round horrible experience. I swear every other one leaks right away, and those that don't can only be refilled once or twice before they do. So you end up going through like 10 of those a day. I also don't know how "eco-friendly" they actually are, since there's a picture of a dead turtle on them under a text to the effect of "don't throw out in nature". I guess on the plus-side, our company at least provides ceramic cups to their internal employees. But since it's the employees' responsibility to clean them, not everybody is off the disposable cup train.

sofixa 8mo ago
> I swear every other one leaks right away, and those that don't can only be refilled once or twice before they do. So you end up going through like 10 of those a day Yeah, if you're using that many, the solution is, and always has been, to get a proper reusable cup (ceramic, glass, whatever).
- vladvasiliu 8mo ago
  Right, but this just shows why these policies don't work in practice. People will just use 10 paper cups which are free, rather than cart around a big ceramic one. Especially in situations where people don't even have an assigned spot in the office anymore, it's not exactly shocking that many will choose the easier route.
bluGill 8mo ago
My company told everyone to bring their own mug, which they were expected to wash from time to time. Then they give mugs for "thanks for working here" awards once in a while so they can be sure everyone has one. Soap and a sink are provided near the coffee makers. Paper cups are still provided, but it is intended visitors not people who work in the building.
- vladvasiliu 8mo ago
  But do people actually use them? That's the theory where I work, too, but most people just use paper cups.