11 ms·

Ross Perot in 1992 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRr60nmDyu4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRr60nmDyu4 We have shipped millions of jobs overseas, and ...

Ross Perot in 1992 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRr60nmDyu4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRr60nmDyu4 We have shipped millions of jobs overseas, and ... a strange situation, we have a process in Washington where after you serve for a while, you can cash in, become a foreign lobbyist. We have got to stop sending jobs overseas. You're paying 12, 13, 14 an hour for factory workers and you can move your factory South of the Border, pay a dollar an hour for your labor, have no health care. That's the most expensive single element making a car. Have no environmental controls, no pollution controls and no retirement and you don't care about anything but making money. There will be a giant sucking sound going south.

freedomben 9mo ago
Indeed, this was one of the first things I thought of too. I remember well the jokes about Perot being crazy, frequently used to dismiss his views. I'll never forget talking with an educated Perot voter (a friend of mine) at the time and actually being confronted with the real views, not a shallow strawman, and realizing I didn't have any good answers because I hadn't actually thought about it. That was a good maturation point for me when I started realizing the power (and danger) of bubbles.
- HarHarVeryFunny 9mo ago
  He was't crazy, just thin-skinned and not suited for politics.
  - ok123456 9mo ago
    The GOP/Bushes blackmailed him into dropping out of the election by using his daughter, threatening to out her as a lesbian right before her wedding. How thick a skin do you need for that?
    - HarHarVeryFunny 9mo ago
      My comment was more in general, not about any one event. Apparently he was also a conspiracy theorist and this whole thing about an attempt to disrupt his daughters wedding seems to be one of those, and he admitted he had no evidence.
- deleted 9mo ago
  [deleted]
- potato3732842 9mo ago
  >I remember well the jokes about Perot being crazy, frequently used to dismiss his views. Was he crazy or was he made to look that way as an excuse to dismiss his views? Sitting here in the 2020s knowing what we know now about "how it all works" it sure does cast a lot of doubt upon the past.
  - rapnie 9mo ago
    Isn't is similar to Carter being depicted as a 'weak president' because he had more progressive ideas than an average US president, which make similar amount of sense.. and hence best ridiculed as a threat to "greed is good" prevailing ethos.
    - starik36 9mo ago
      He was depicted as weak because during his time an entire US embassy was held hostage in Iran for more than a year. Couple that with inflation reaching 14.8% and now you understand why.
  - okaram 9mo ago
    Porque no los dos? He was a super-rich guy, who had had too many people telling him he was a genius for way too long (reminds you of anybody?), and so was way too sure of himself. A bunch of his ideas were crazy, which doesn't mean others weren't trying to dismiss his views.
    - efitz 9mo ago
      > A bunch of his ideas were crazy Which ones? btw young idealistic me voted for Perot in 1992
      - naasking 9mo ago
        I too would like to know.
      - chucky_z 9mo ago
        All shoe sizes should only be small, medium, and large. He really did have a lot of very ridiculous ideas. He also had a lot of extremely good ideas and incredible understanding of socioeconomic conditions. His book “United We Stand” with modern context is quite amazing considering it came out in the early 90s.
- brightball 9mo ago
  I had a similar experience when I learned about Ron Paul back around the 2008 election. It was also the first time I had my eyes opened to information suppression when Fox News edited some of his answers out of rebroadcasts of debates.
  - freedomben 9mo ago
    Same! I actually watched the debate live (on AFN) while in Iraq (deployed), and when I got home and got into discussions about it with friends I had a hard time believing we had watched the same debate. Turned out we didn't, they had watched the edited version. That was extremely eye opening
- commandlinefan 9mo ago
  > the jokes about Perot being crazy I remember the debates around the time, though, and what most people said was that shipping manufacturing jobs out of the united stated would actually create prosperity here so that the manufacturing types could "move up" into less menial work. They're saying the same thing now, and although it _does_ seem that that did happen in the 90's when all the manufacturing jobs went offshore, it doesn't seem to be happening now.
- deleted 9mo ago
  [deleted]
casey2 9mo ago
Fatten up the pig, then carve it can you fatten it up again? American leaders lost hope in Americas ability to build the future. They decided this was as good as it's going to get and squoze the people at every level with unproductive IT, bureaucracy, consumerism. This country doesn't have a workforce capable of building the future anymore, it's dropouts and druggies the lot of them.
tokai 9mo ago
Not sending production to the place with the cheapest labour is great way to have your companies being outcompeted by foreign actors. Unless we want to return to mercantilism a global empowerment of organized labour globally is the only real way to fix this.
- K0balt 9mo ago
  This assumes that leadership has a vision beyond the next quarterlies. Offshoring is seen as a solution to organized labor, unfortunately. Exec compensation above a reasonable salary needs to to tied somehow to longer term outcomes.
  - tokai 9mo ago
    Forgot the whole crux of my point. Labour needs to be empowered globally, to minimize the benefits of offshoring.
    - petermcneeley 9mo ago
      If your plan relies on total coordination of the the entire globe you have no plan.
      - nathan_compton 9mo ago
        I guess, but the real issue here is that capital will mount a concerted, decades long effort, to prevent global organization of labor. Its not like its per se impossible to get enough global labor organization: its just profoundly, aggressively, even murderously, opposed by people who have power. I guess we could think of that as just "part of the reality," but I think its a little silly not to at least mention it.
        petermcneeley 9mo ago
        It is not realistic but even worse it isnt even desirable. There is huge swaths of opposition to "global organization of labor". The last thing you want is to oppress a bunch of people under your vision of perfect government.
ecshafer 9mo ago
One of my main arguments for a universal health care scheme in the united states is how horrendously expensive, for employers, health care is. Lets totally ignore efficacy, moral arguments, expense for the patient, etc. If you are a company in the US a large percentage of the effective compensation of employees is healthcare. A moderately good PPO is like ~$10k+ a year per employee. You can pay workers in some other countries less than just the cost of paying for health insurance for a US employee.
- jonhohle 9mo ago
  As someone paying for a family on a marketplace bronze plan, that’s a bargain! I think our premiums will exceed $20K this year. With all of the medical group consolidation, all of the wait time woes our Canadian friends always complained about are the reality here now as well. So I’m paying more than anywhere else on the world and have to wait 6 months for a PCP appointment. We have the worst of both worlds.
  - ecshafer 9mo ago
    So the ~$10k a year is just what the employer is paying in my example, taking some numbers from chatgpt for a medium sized company in new york. Not even counting the employee side of the premiums, which can be crazy high as well.
  - tharkun__ 9mo ago
    I'm curious to compare this to other countries that have state owned/mandated insurance and are so far still mostly covering everything and which are always touted as "superior" to the US, who "have the most expensive health care system". Can't use Canada as OHIP et. al. don't cover much and the same employer tied insurance scheme as in the US exists and is necessary. An example of a country with "good healthcare" and such a system would be Germany. Extra insurance does exist there as well nowadays from what I understand but health insurance isn't tied entirely to employment and the extras are things like a 20 EUR per month to cover the co-pay on large and expensive procedures. While private insurance exists there too, I want to compare to the often touted "free healthcare" i.e. public system. There are still different providers even under the one public system. So from a quick search, Germany has insurance rates from ~14-16% of gross salary, half of which the employee pays from their gross salary. But most insurances have an extra percentage they charge on top. I found one as an example that charges 17.29% total, which if you're self-employed, you have to cover yourself (to be comparable to your marketplace bronze plan being entirely self-paid). Now the question becomes: Are you paying more or less as a percentage of your salary and by how much? (and side question for your parent I guess: how does that compare to the $10k the employer pays, which would be 8.645% in this example)
larme 9mo ago
It’s true that American companies have benefited from sending jobs overseas. Instead of trying to stop them, perhaps we could explore ways to share this money more fairly across the country.
- toomuchtodo 9mo ago
  Everyone in business seems allergic to "pay domestic workers living wages and provide flexible working arrangements with good work life balance" so we will only arrive there through politics, unions, and structural labor shortages as the prime working age population cohort continues to shrink, imho. Honorable mention to Senator Bernie Moreno of Ohio for introducing legislation to tax outsource payment flows. The HIRE Act: 25% tax on outsourcing - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45161419 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45161419 - September 2025 Ohio senator introduces 25% tax on companies that outsource jobs overseas - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45146528 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45146528 - September 2025 (US centric perspective)
  - Imustaskforhelp 9mo ago
    > Everyone in business seems allergic to "pay domestic workers living wages and provide flexible working arrangements with good work life balance" so we will only arrive there through politics, unions, and structural labor shortages as the prime working age population cohort continues to shrink, imho. I think its because I suppose we can either talk about small businesses who can be very cost cutting because their overall profits are very thin (you really can't blame them that much I think) And the medium to large corporations either take Venture funding and want to cost cut to show more growth or maximizing share holder profit https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodge_v._Ford_Motor_Co https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodge_v._Ford_Motor_Co. (taking an short summary from ddg AI) The case you're referring to is Dodge v. Ford Motor Co., decided in 1919, where the Michigan Supreme Court ruled that a corporation must operate primarily for the profit of its shareholders, rather than for the benefit of employees or customers. This case is often cited as a foundational example of "shareholder primacy" in corporate law. This is the root cause of the issue. Do you know that there is a solution to it They are called social enterprises and there are legal frameworks to do that. You might've seen some labels given by independent parties to show that as well So they exist, but nobody creates them, why? Because, its insanely hard to raise funding in them compared to the average structure. I looked up into it and the system of funding is just created such way where it rewards any and every cost cutting I think that just like non profits get good value from doing good. A middle way where a company's purpose becomes some aspect of social good and not entirely profits. This might help but we need govts supporting them (similar to perhaps even non profits) I have a hypothesis that if you provide easy access to lower interest loans with less collateral overall (perhaps even none?, provide micro-grants perhaps) at a federal level/banking level might be the best way to really start up some new innovation whose idea is social mission Most people have an idea of enough, I think that academically inclined people who create companies would really appreciate this and this could even include the creation of things like google etc. which really just turned evil from dont be evil because of the wiki link/case that happened imo Taxation as you say in the 25% tax won't really work that well imo as we saw recently in the tax scandal recently in America where billions were lost. Although so much of US especially its politics is so much lobbied etc. that I find the idea of this change just stopping because it could prove a real threat to the completely capitalist corporations which will fire 1000's of people in an instant Also whenever you position something as tax, the capitalist forces would find ways to evade it anyway, here let me give some ideas on top of my head What would happen if people paid outsourcing companies via stablecoin crypto, how would you tax that? What if things like this can count as gig work and laws related to that? What if an outsourcer creates their own mini company and such creates an invoice, I am not sure but this would be considered a service so how would that work, is there a service tax if so how much %? Suppose somebody got a consultancy company to work on a project and then just created the project end to end and deployed it and just tweaked it enough where its a mini saas designed just for that company, the company/consultancy can argue its a saas, so how would the taxation work for saas. Are we gonna reach a point where even things like saas could be highly taxed? The easiest way seems to me crypto for (bootstrappable outsourcing?) but depending upon the size of the outsourcing, they can employ multiple methods as I gave. How would the govt approach the multiple loopholes as such? The whole issue stems from a pure capitalist system where it sometimes rewards to do malicious things so long term, countries need to find ways of supporting social entreprises/funding them.
hshdhdhj4444 9mo ago
And yet the timeframe Huang mentions does not go beyond 20 years ago, indicating his statement is little more than political posturing. Also, last I saw, he wasn’t prevented from speaking at any point in those past 2 decades and I don’t remember any mention from him about these issues despite the fact that there’s been bipartisan concerns about manufacturing in China for at least a decade. It’s almost like he’s trying to position his company’s profit growing enterprises as a part of helping the poorest Americans to justify the U.S. taxpayer paying for a lot of it, or at least assuming all downside risk…
- baal80spam 9mo ago
  Who would've listened to (or even knew about) Jensen Huang before ChatGPT?
- potato3732842 9mo ago
  >And yet the timeframe Huang mentions does not go beyond 20 years ago, indicating his statement is little more than political posturing. 20yr ago you could at least plausibly lie to yourself and say that things were ok. The seeds were sown back in the late 60s early 70s at least. Fair amount of gas was put on the fire in the 80s.
bee_rider 9mo ago
If we had some tariffs that somehow just canceled out the exploitation (of people and the environment), that could be interesting. “Stop sending jobs overseas” is too blunt, create a fair international market and let winners win. But, I don’t think anyone is naive enough to propose such a thing seriously. It is impossible to believe that some administration wouldn’t use it for political favors.
- rs999gti 9mo ago
  > create a fair international market and let winners win. Why? It's selfish, but since the US and EU sent jobs out to India and China. India and China, have created protections that make getting those jobs back nearly impossible short of stopping payments. At the same time, these countries have huge trading imbalances (see FR complaining that their CN trade imbalance is untenable) and have become the defacto for cheap labor.
  - bee_rider 9mo ago
    I’m not sure what the “It’s selfish” part means, did you leave out a suggestion of some selfish action you think we should take? I’m hoping that free markets tend to produce winners more often than protectionist ones. I don’t really want stagnant US companies to just stick around because they cozied up to the government.
NoSalt 9mo ago
I voted for Ross. Sad he didn't win.
emchammer 9mo ago
The dignity of three presidential candidates who disagree with each other, sitting quietly while allowing the other to finish using their allotted time…
hackthemack 9mo ago
Side point about this HN post "Jensen: 'We've done our country a great disservice' by offshoring" currently 3 hours and 129 points Why does it seem like it is getting pushed down relative to other posts that have less upvotes and with longer times? Here are some posts that are currently higher ranked. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46445412 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46445412 currently 8 hours and 82 points https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46465493 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46465493 currently 4 hours and 29 points https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46497589 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46497589 currently 5 hours and 82 points It does not make sense unless some force is pushing the Jensen post down, or the other posts up?
- bee_rider 9mo ago
  Doesn’t HN have some system for lowering threads that have, like, acrimonious voting patterns? Under the assumption that they are producing more entrenched argument, instead of informing discussion.

freedomben 9mo ago

Indeed, this was one of the first things I thought of too. I remember well the jokes about Perot being crazy, frequently used to dismiss his views. I'll never forget talking with an educated Perot voter (a friend of mine) at the time and actually being confronted with the real views, not a shallow strawman, and realizing I didn't have any good answers because I hadn't actually thought about it. That was a good maturation point for me when I started realizing the power (and danger) of bubbles.

HarHarVeryFunny 9mo ago
He was't crazy, just thin-skinned and not suited for politics.
- ok123456 9mo ago
  The GOP/Bushes blackmailed him into dropping out of the election by using his daughter, threatening to out her as a lesbian right before her wedding. How thick a skin do you need for that?
  - HarHarVeryFunny 9mo ago
    My comment was more in general, not about any one event. Apparently he was also a conspiracy theorist and this whole thing about an attempt to disrupt his daughters wedding seems to be one of those, and he admitted he had no evidence.
deleted 9mo ago
[deleted]
potato3732842 9mo ago
>I remember well the jokes about Perot being crazy, frequently used to dismiss his views. Was he crazy or was he made to look that way as an excuse to dismiss his views? Sitting here in the 2020s knowing what we know now about "how it all works" it sure does cast a lot of doubt upon the past.
- rapnie 9mo ago
  Isn't is similar to Carter being depicted as a 'weak president' because he had more progressive ideas than an average US president, which make similar amount of sense.. and hence best ridiculed as a threat to "greed is good" prevailing ethos.
  - starik36 9mo ago
    He was depicted as weak because during his time an entire US embassy was held hostage in Iran for more than a year. Couple that with inflation reaching 14.8% and now you understand why.
- okaram 9mo ago
  Porque no los dos? He was a super-rich guy, who had had too many people telling him he was a genius for way too long (reminds you of anybody?), and so was way too sure of himself. A bunch of his ideas were crazy, which doesn't mean others weren't trying to dismiss his views.
  - efitz 9mo ago
    > A bunch of his ideas were crazy Which ones? btw young idealistic me voted for Perot in 1992
    - naasking 9mo ago
      I too would like to know.
    - chucky_z 9mo ago
      All shoe sizes should only be small, medium, and large. He really did have a lot of very ridiculous ideas. He also had a lot of extremely good ideas and incredible understanding of socioeconomic conditions. His book “United We Stand” with modern context is quite amazing considering it came out in the early 90s.
brightball 9mo ago
I had a similar experience when I learned about Ron Paul back around the 2008 election. It was also the first time I had my eyes opened to information suppression when Fox News edited some of his answers out of rebroadcasts of debates.
- freedomben 9mo ago
  Same! I actually watched the debate live (on AFN) while in Iraq (deployed), and when I got home and got into discussions about it with friends I had a hard time believing we had watched the same debate. Turned out we didn't, they had watched the edited version. That was extremely eye opening
commandlinefan 9mo ago
> the jokes about Perot being crazy I remember the debates around the time, though, and what most people said was that shipping manufacturing jobs out of the united stated would actually create prosperity here so that the manufacturing types could "move up" into less menial work. They're saying the same thing now, and although it _does_ seem that that did happen in the 90's when all the manufacturing jobs went offshore, it doesn't seem to be happening now.
deleted 9mo ago
[deleted]

casey2 9mo ago

Fatten up the pig, then carve it can you fatten it up again? American leaders lost hope in Americas ability to build the future. They decided this was as good as it's going to get and squoze the people at every level with unproductive IT, bureaucracy, consumerism. This country doesn't have a workforce capable of building the future anymore, it's dropouts and druggies the lot of them.

tokai 9mo ago

Not sending production to the place with the cheapest labour is great way to have your companies being outcompeted by foreign actors. Unless we want to return to mercantilism a global empowerment of organized labour globally is the only real way to fix this.

K0balt 9mo ago
This assumes that leadership has a vision beyond the next quarterlies. Offshoring is seen as a solution to organized labor, unfortunately. Exec compensation above a reasonable salary needs to to tied somehow to longer term outcomes.
- tokai 9mo ago
  Forgot the whole crux of my point. Labour needs to be empowered globally, to minimize the benefits of offshoring.
  - petermcneeley 9mo ago
    If your plan relies on total coordination of the the entire globe you have no plan.
    - nathan_compton 9mo ago
      I guess, but the real issue here is that capital will mount a concerted, decades long effort, to prevent global organization of labor. Its not like its per se impossible to get enough global labor organization: its just profoundly, aggressively, even murderously, opposed by people who have power. I guess we could think of that as just "part of the reality," but I think its a little silly not to at least mention it.
      - petermcneeley 9mo ago
        It is not realistic but even worse it isnt even desirable. There is huge swaths of opposition to "global organization of labor". The last thing you want is to oppress a bunch of people under your vision of perfect government.

ecshafer 9mo ago

One of my main arguments for a universal health care scheme in the united states is how horrendously expensive, for employers, health care is. Lets totally ignore efficacy, moral arguments, expense for the patient, etc. If you are a company in the US a large percentage of the effective compensation of employees is healthcare. A moderately good PPO is like ~$10k+ a year per employee. You can pay workers in some other countries less than just the cost of paying for health insurance for a US employee.

jonhohle 9mo ago
As someone paying for a family on a marketplace bronze plan, that’s a bargain! I think our premiums will exceed $20K this year. With all of the medical group consolidation, all of the wait time woes our Canadian friends always complained about are the reality here now as well. So I’m paying more than anywhere else on the world and have to wait 6 months for a PCP appointment. We have the worst of both worlds.
- ecshafer 9mo ago
  So the ~$10k a year is just what the employer is paying in my example, taking some numbers from chatgpt for a medium sized company in new york. Not even counting the employee side of the premiums, which can be crazy high as well.
- tharkun__ 9mo ago
  I'm curious to compare this to other countries that have state owned/mandated insurance and are so far still mostly covering everything and which are always touted as "superior" to the US, who "have the most expensive health care system". Can't use Canada as OHIP et. al. don't cover much and the same employer tied insurance scheme as in the US exists and is necessary. An example of a country with "good healthcare" and such a system would be Germany. Extra insurance does exist there as well nowadays from what I understand but health insurance isn't tied entirely to employment and the extras are things like a 20 EUR per month to cover the co-pay on large and expensive procedures. While private insurance exists there too, I want to compare to the often touted "free healthcare" i.e. public system. There are still different providers even under the one public system. So from a quick search, Germany has insurance rates from ~14-16% of gross salary, half of which the employee pays from their gross salary. But most insurances have an extra percentage they charge on top. I found one as an example that charges 17.29% total, which if you're self-employed, you have to cover yourself (to be comparable to your marketplace bronze plan being entirely self-paid). Now the question becomes: Are you paying more or less as a percentage of your salary and by how much? (and side question for your parent I guess: how does that compare to the $10k the employer pays, which would be 8.645% in this example)

larme 9mo ago

It’s true that American companies have benefited from sending jobs overseas. Instead of trying to stop them, perhaps we could explore ways to share this money more fairly across the country.

toomuchtodo 9mo ago
Everyone in business seems allergic to "pay domestic workers living wages and provide flexible working arrangements with good work life balance" so we will only arrive there through politics, unions, and structural labor shortages as the prime working age population cohort continues to shrink, imho. Honorable mention to Senator Bernie Moreno of Ohio for introducing legislation to tax outsource payment flows. The HIRE Act: 25% tax on outsourcing - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45161419 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45161419 - September 2025 Ohio senator introduces 25% tax on companies that outsource jobs overseas - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45146528 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45146528 - September 2025 (US centric perspective)
- Imustaskforhelp 9mo ago
  > Everyone in business seems allergic to "pay domestic workers living wages and provide flexible working arrangements with good work life balance" so we will only arrive there through politics, unions, and structural labor shortages as the prime working age population cohort continues to shrink, imho. I think its because I suppose we can either talk about small businesses who can be very cost cutting because their overall profits are very thin (you really can't blame them that much I think) And the medium to large corporations either take Venture funding and want to cost cut to show more growth or maximizing share holder profit https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodge_v._Ford_Motor_Co https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodge_v._Ford_Motor_Co. (taking an short summary from ddg AI) The case you're referring to is Dodge v. Ford Motor Co., decided in 1919, where the Michigan Supreme Court ruled that a corporation must operate primarily for the profit of its shareholders, rather than for the benefit of employees or customers. This case is often cited as a foundational example of "shareholder primacy" in corporate law. This is the root cause of the issue. Do you know that there is a solution to it They are called social enterprises and there are legal frameworks to do that. You might've seen some labels given by independent parties to show that as well So they exist, but nobody creates them, why? Because, its insanely hard to raise funding in them compared to the average structure. I looked up into it and the system of funding is just created such way where it rewards any and every cost cutting I think that just like non profits get good value from doing good. A middle way where a company's purpose becomes some aspect of social good and not entirely profits. This might help but we need govts supporting them (similar to perhaps even non profits) I have a hypothesis that if you provide easy access to lower interest loans with less collateral overall (perhaps even none?, provide micro-grants perhaps) at a federal level/banking level might be the best way to really start up some new innovation whose idea is social mission Most people have an idea of enough, I think that academically inclined people who create companies would really appreciate this and this could even include the creation of things like google etc. which really just turned evil from dont be evil because of the wiki link/case that happened imo Taxation as you say in the 25% tax won't really work that well imo as we saw recently in the tax scandal recently in America where billions were lost. Although so much of US especially its politics is so much lobbied etc. that I find the idea of this change just stopping because it could prove a real threat to the completely capitalist corporations which will fire 1000's of people in an instant Also whenever you position something as tax, the capitalist forces would find ways to evade it anyway, here let me give some ideas on top of my head What would happen if people paid outsourcing companies via stablecoin crypto, how would you tax that? What if things like this can count as gig work and laws related to that? What if an outsourcer creates their own mini company and such creates an invoice, I am not sure but this would be considered a service so how would that work, is there a service tax if so how much %? Suppose somebody got a consultancy company to work on a project and then just created the project end to end and deployed it and just tweaked it enough where its a mini saas designed just for that company, the company/consultancy can argue its a saas, so how would the taxation work for saas. Are we gonna reach a point where even things like saas could be highly taxed? The easiest way seems to me crypto for (bootstrappable outsourcing?) but depending upon the size of the outsourcing, they can employ multiple methods as I gave. How would the govt approach the multiple loopholes as such? The whole issue stems from a pure capitalist system where it sometimes rewards to do malicious things so long term, countries need to find ways of supporting social entreprises/funding them.

hshdhdhj4444 9mo ago

And yet the timeframe Huang mentions does not go beyond 20 years ago, indicating his statement is little more than political posturing. Also, last I saw, he wasn’t prevented from speaking at any point in those past 2 decades and I don’t remember any mention from him about these issues despite the fact that there’s been bipartisan concerns about manufacturing in China for at least a decade. It’s almost like he’s trying to position his company’s profit growing enterprises as a part of helping the poorest Americans to justify the U.S. taxpayer paying for a lot of it, or at least assuming all downside risk…

baal80spam 9mo ago
Who would've listened to (or even knew about) Jensen Huang before ChatGPT?
potato3732842 9mo ago
>And yet the timeframe Huang mentions does not go beyond 20 years ago, indicating his statement is little more than political posturing. 20yr ago you could at least plausibly lie to yourself and say that things were ok. The seeds were sown back in the late 60s early 70s at least. Fair amount of gas was put on the fire in the 80s.

bee_rider 9mo ago

If we had some tariffs that somehow just canceled out the exploitation (of people and the environment), that could be interesting. “Stop sending jobs overseas” is too blunt, create a fair international market and let winners win. But, I don’t think anyone is naive enough to propose such a thing seriously. It is impossible to believe that some administration wouldn’t use it for political favors.

rs999gti 9mo ago
> create a fair international market and let winners win. Why? It's selfish, but since the US and EU sent jobs out to India and China. India and China, have created protections that make getting those jobs back nearly impossible short of stopping payments. At the same time, these countries have huge trading imbalances (see FR complaining that their CN trade imbalance is untenable) and have become the defacto for cheap labor.
- bee_rider 9mo ago
  I’m not sure what the “It’s selfish” part means, did you leave out a suggestion of some selfish action you think we should take? I’m hoping that free markets tend to produce winners more often than protectionist ones. I don’t really want stagnant US companies to just stick around because they cozied up to the government.

NoSalt 9mo ago

I voted for Ross. Sad he didn't win.

emchammer 9mo ago

The dignity of three presidential candidates who disagree with each other, sitting quietly while allowing the other to finish using their allotted time…

hackthemack 9mo ago

Side point about this HN post "Jensen: 'We've done our country a great disservice' by offshoring" currently 3 hours and 129 points Why does it seem like it is getting pushed down relative to other posts that have less upvotes and with longer times? Here are some posts that are currently higher ranked. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46445412 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46445412 currently 8 hours and 82 points https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46465493 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46465493 currently 4 hours and 29 points https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46497589 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46497589 currently 5 hours and 82 points It does not make sense unless some force is pushing the Jensen post down, or the other posts up?

bee_rider 9mo ago
Doesn’t HN have some system for lowering threads that have, like, acrimonious voting patterns? Under the assumption that they are producing more entrenched argument, instead of informing discussion.