6 ms·

Is it possible that this phenomenon is specific to people with those mental illnesses? A wider general population study resulted in the inverse effect: https:/

Is it possible that this phenomenon is specific to people with those mental illnesses? A wider general population study resulted in the inverse effect: https://www.mdpi.com/2072-6643/15/6/1354 https://www.mdpi.com/2072-6643/15/6/1354 I only did a postgraduate degree, so I don't have the practice reading scientific studies to determine which is true. Maybe someone with more knowledge can chime in?

tootie 10mo ago
No, it affects everybody. Says so in the article. The distinction appears to be that severe mental illness is associated with shortened lifespan so coffee has a more profound anti-aging affect on that population.
- devilsdata 10mo ago
  Interesting. I wonder if that extends to any stimulant, or if it's something particular with caffeine and coffee. With that said, the fact that the other study seemed to find the opposite conclusion concerns me.
  - tootie 10mo ago
    What other studies?
foota 10mo ago
Idk about the op study, but I could imagine confounders with instant coffee consumption.
- devilsdata 10mo ago
  True, and it could also be what the person has with the coffee. I have a feeling people that drink instant coffee are more likely to add milk, creamer, or sugar. That said, instant coffee is just freeze-dried coffee. There's a possibility its effect is no different.
  - VladVladikoff 10mo ago
    I think it’s typically a different species (Coffea canephora). So theoretically drinking bean tea of a different plant could have different health impacts.
    - scroogey 10mo ago
      Also known as Robusta. I have two different instant coffees at home and just checked - one is robusta, one arabica.
shoo 10mo ago
Separately from this study, here's an interesting opinion piece by John Ioannidis titled "The Challenge of Reforming Nutritional Epidemiologic Research", published in JAMA 2018: https://statmodeling.stat.columbia.edu/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/jama_Ioannidis_2018_vp_180095.pdf https://statmodeling.stat.columbia.edu/wp-content/uploads/20... > Assuming the meta-analyzed evidence from cohort > studies represents life span–long causal associations, for > a baseline life expectancy of 80 years, eating 12 hazelnuts > daily (1 oz) would prolong life by 12 years (ie, 1 year per > hazelnut), drinking 3 cups of coffee daily would achieve > a similar gain of 12 extra years, and eating a single man- > darin orange daily (80 g) would add 5 years of life. Con- > versely, consuming 1 egg daily would reduce life expec- > tancy by 6 years, and eating 2 slices of bacon (30 g) daily > would shorten life by a decade, an effect worse than > smoking. Could these results possibly be true? via Andrew Gelman's blog: https://statmodeling.stat.columbia.edu/2019/01/26/article-portrays-things-accurately-nutrition-literature-even-worse-shape-thought/ https://statmodeling.stat.columbia.edu/2019/01/26/article-po...
- kfarr 10mo ago
  Good thing I drink hazelnut coffee while eating eggs and bacon! It cancels out right?
  - flowerthoughts 10mo ago
    You're joking, but that's probably the right strategy: make sure to enjoy things on both sides of the aisle, so you don't have to worry about which side adds, and which removes, years. And then don't fret about it. Aside from that, I'd love to know how each of those items affects life quality. Living long is only a life goal up to a certain age, and from what I've seen around me, that age is very rarely 90.
    - seec 9mo ago
      Yeah, living to old age at the cost of overoptimizing every little thing in your life does not seem like a worthwhile endeavor. You'll only add years that won't be terribly useful or pleasant anyway, because anyone has to deal with some form of wear and tear regardless. At the very least, all the old people I know have to deal with some audition and sight loss, and even when they are in decent physical shape, they seem to be hurting somewhere. It feels like trying to be immortal, which is a bit of a folly. Anyway, the other day I noticed that Warren Buffett is just retiring at the age of 94. The man has eaten McDonald's for breakfast for much of his life. Diet cannot be that big of a deal. What those epidemiological studies reveal is that food associated with higher class makes you live longer, which is reverse causation, at best.
11Spades 10mo ago
Studies of larger populations yield more typical results. Consequently, studies of smaller populations yield more extreme results. That's not to say that these results might not be significant -- what you propose may be the case -- but I'd want to see an actual mechanism of action before buying something like this.
huijzer 10mo ago
[flagged]
- the_real_cher 10mo ago
  Research doesn't show that dietary acids affect body pH that much. There's massive buffer systems in the body.
  - camel_gopher 10mo ago
    Yep, homeostasis
  - huijzer 10mo ago
    Source? There are many sources that show that pH in urine and saliva increases when people drink alkaline water.
    - the_real_cher 10mo ago
      Of course urine would, its the result of kidneys eliminating the acid brought to them by the plasma buffer system. But blood and body Ph don't change. The body is incredibly complex so I'm not saying this is conclusive but here's a source plus a lot of explanation with numerous experiments. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3828631/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3828631/ Another thing: Calcium strongly associates with acid. And there's no evidence of osteoporosis or bone leaching with high acid diets.
      - huijzer 9mo ago
        You type "pH" as "Ph" so are you sure you know what you are talking about or are you just repeating some evidence you found after a few seconds of searching?
      - huijzer 9mo ago
        I've spent many hours researching this topic, and the paper is incorrect for multiple reasons and one of which being that it is using a straw man argument. > This hypothesis posits that foods associated with an increased urinary acid excretion are deleterious for the skeleton, leading to osteoporosis and enhanced fragility fracture risk. That the second part of this hypothesis could be true is actually super easy to prove from a purely chemical perspective. When the pH of the blood drops, cells such as bones and muscle cells will release buffering ions such as phosphate from bone and proteins from muscle cells. As long as the minerals from the bones are not replaced, the bones will weaken. The straw man in this claim is that the pH discussion usually talks about what foods change the body's overall pH balance in what direction; not just the urine.
_zagj 10mo ago
It's well-known that schizophrenics self-medicate with coffee and nicotine: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schizophrenia_and_tobacco_smoking https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schizophrenia_and_tobacco_smok... The inverse possibility--that nicotine, and perhaps caffeine as well, heighten the risk of psychosis in those genetially predisposed--has also been considered.
- aszantu 10mo ago
  Not diagnosed, but eventually I noticed how veggies gave me psychotic episodes that would last for a few days. Was connected to oxolates seemingly. After one week of probiotics psychosis doesn't happen when I eat veggies now. Incidentally caffeine calms me down as well.
  - rendall 10mo ago
    Thanks for sharing your experience That sounds really unsettling to go through. I’m glad things have improved for you, but episodes that feel psychotic can be important to look into, since there can be many possible causes, not all of them related to food. If you ever feel comfortable doing so, talking with a medical professional could help make sure nothing else is going on in the background. Everyone’s body is different, and you know your experience best. I just hope you can get clarity and support so things keep moving in a good direction.
  - jimnotgym 10mo ago
    Could you share your probiotic regime please? What worked for you?
    - aszantu 9mo ago
      Sorry I took so long to answer. The one is called pro combo, you take it for a week. I took l-glutamine and diatomaceous earth for a month before I took the probiotic. Also was eating China kale, low oxolate veggie when I took it, so it wouldn't starve right away.
- mcmoor 10mo ago
phyzome 10mo ago
I would generally recommend ignoring observational nutrition studies like this one. There's just a massive amount of bunk science in that area. Correlations all over the place, very little evidence for causation.
- pandemic_region 10mo ago
  Data point: my nutrition coach says I can eat up to 18 eggs a week no problem. She recommends two per day.
maxlamb 10mo ago
The study you linked is for instant coffee, widely considered the least healthy form of coffee. There is no study showing filtered coffee has negative health effects for most people, actually the opposite: https://www.health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy/whats-the-healthiest-way-to-brew-coffee https://www.health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy/whats-the-hea...
alimw 10mo ago
> I only did a postgraduate degree This confuses me. Aren't all the best degrees postgraduate degrees?

tootie 10mo ago

No, it affects everybody. Says so in the article. The distinction appears to be that severe mental illness is associated with shortened lifespan so coffee has a more profound anti-aging affect on that population.

devilsdata 10mo ago
Interesting. I wonder if that extends to any stimulant, or if it's something particular with caffeine and coffee. With that said, the fact that the other study seemed to find the opposite conclusion concerns me.
- tootie 10mo ago
  What other studies?

foota 10mo ago

Idk about the op study, but I could imagine confounders with instant coffee consumption.

devilsdata 10mo ago
True, and it could also be what the person has with the coffee. I have a feeling people that drink instant coffee are more likely to add milk, creamer, or sugar. That said, instant coffee is just freeze-dried coffee. There's a possibility its effect is no different.
- VladVladikoff 10mo ago
  I think it’s typically a different species (Coffea canephora). So theoretically drinking bean tea of a different plant could have different health impacts.
  - scroogey 10mo ago
    Also known as Robusta. I have two different instant coffees at home and just checked - one is robusta, one arabica.

shoo 10mo ago

Separately from this study, here's an interesting opinion piece by John Ioannidis titled "The Challenge of Reforming Nutritional Epidemiologic Research", published in JAMA 2018: https://statmodeling.stat.columbia.edu/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/jama_Ioannidis_2018_vp_180095.pdf https://statmodeling.stat.columbia.edu/wp-content/uploads/20... > Assuming the meta-analyzed evidence from cohort > studies represents life span–long causal associations, for > a baseline life expectancy of 80 years, eating 12 hazelnuts > daily (1 oz) would prolong life by 12 years (ie, 1 year per > hazelnut), drinking 3 cups of coffee daily would achieve > a similar gain of 12 extra years, and eating a single man- > darin orange daily (80 g) would add 5 years of life. Con- > versely, consuming 1 egg daily would reduce life expec- > tancy by 6 years, and eating 2 slices of bacon (30 g) daily > would shorten life by a decade, an effect worse than > smoking. Could these results possibly be true? via Andrew Gelman's blog: https://statmodeling.stat.columbia.edu/2019/01/26/article-portrays-things-accurately-nutrition-literature-even-worse-shape-thought/ https://statmodeling.stat.columbia.edu/2019/01/26/article-po...

kfarr 10mo ago
Good thing I drink hazelnut coffee while eating eggs and bacon! It cancels out right?
- flowerthoughts 10mo ago
  You're joking, but that's probably the right strategy: make sure to enjoy things on both sides of the aisle, so you don't have to worry about which side adds, and which removes, years. And then don't fret about it. Aside from that, I'd love to know how each of those items affects life quality. Living long is only a life goal up to a certain age, and from what I've seen around me, that age is very rarely 90.
  - seec 9mo ago
    Yeah, living to old age at the cost of overoptimizing every little thing in your life does not seem like a worthwhile endeavor. You'll only add years that won't be terribly useful or pleasant anyway, because anyone has to deal with some form of wear and tear regardless. At the very least, all the old people I know have to deal with some audition and sight loss, and even when they are in decent physical shape, they seem to be hurting somewhere. It feels like trying to be immortal, which is a bit of a folly. Anyway, the other day I noticed that Warren Buffett is just retiring at the age of 94. The man has eaten McDonald's for breakfast for much of his life. Diet cannot be that big of a deal. What those epidemiological studies reveal is that food associated with higher class makes you live longer, which is reverse causation, at best.

11Spades 10mo ago

Studies of larger populations yield more typical results. Consequently, studies of smaller populations yield more extreme results. That's not to say that these results might not be significant -- what you propose may be the case -- but I'd want to see an actual mechanism of action before buying something like this.

huijzer 10mo ago

[flagged]

the_real_cher 10mo ago
Research doesn't show that dietary acids affect body pH that much. There's massive buffer systems in the body.
- camel_gopher 10mo ago
  Yep, homeostasis
- huijzer 10mo ago
  Source? There are many sources that show that pH in urine and saliva increases when people drink alkaline water.
  - the_real_cher 10mo ago
    Of course urine would, its the result of kidneys eliminating the acid brought to them by the plasma buffer system. But blood and body Ph don't change. The body is incredibly complex so I'm not saying this is conclusive but here's a source plus a lot of explanation with numerous experiments. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3828631/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3828631/ Another thing: Calcium strongly associates with acid. And there's no evidence of osteoporosis or bone leaching with high acid diets.
    - huijzer 9mo ago
      You type "pH" as "Ph" so are you sure you know what you are talking about or are you just repeating some evidence you found after a few seconds of searching?
    - huijzer 9mo ago
      I've spent many hours researching this topic, and the paper is incorrect for multiple reasons and one of which being that it is using a straw man argument. > This hypothesis posits that foods associated with an increased urinary acid excretion are deleterious for the skeleton, leading to osteoporosis and enhanced fragility fracture risk. That the second part of this hypothesis could be true is actually super easy to prove from a purely chemical perspective. When the pH of the blood drops, cells such as bones and muscle cells will release buffering ions such as phosphate from bone and proteins from muscle cells. As long as the minerals from the bones are not replaced, the bones will weaken. The straw man in this claim is that the pH discussion usually talks about what foods change the body's overall pH balance in what direction; not just the urine.

_zagj 10mo ago

It's well-known that schizophrenics self-medicate with coffee and nicotine: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schizophrenia_and_tobacco_smoking https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schizophrenia_and_tobacco_smok... The inverse possibility--that nicotine, and perhaps caffeine as well, heighten the risk of psychosis in those genetially predisposed--has also been considered.

aszantu 10mo ago
Not diagnosed, but eventually I noticed how veggies gave me psychotic episodes that would last for a few days. Was connected to oxolates seemingly. After one week of probiotics psychosis doesn't happen when I eat veggies now. Incidentally caffeine calms me down as well.
- rendall 10mo ago
  Thanks for sharing your experience That sounds really unsettling to go through. I’m glad things have improved for you, but episodes that feel psychotic can be important to look into, since there can be many possible causes, not all of them related to food. If you ever feel comfortable doing so, talking with a medical professional could help make sure nothing else is going on in the background. Everyone’s body is different, and you know your experience best. I just hope you can get clarity and support so things keep moving in a good direction.
- jimnotgym 10mo ago
  Could you share your probiotic regime please? What worked for you?
  - aszantu 9mo ago
    Sorry I took so long to answer. The one is called pro combo, you take it for a week. I took l-glutamine and diatomaceous earth for a month before I took the probiotic. Also was eating China kale, low oxolate veggie when I took it, so it wouldn't starve right away.
mcmoor 10mo ago

phyzome 10mo ago

I would generally recommend ignoring observational nutrition studies like this one. There's just a massive amount of bunk science in that area. Correlations all over the place, very little evidence for causation.

pandemic_region 10mo ago
Data point: my nutrition coach says I can eat up to 18 eggs a week no problem. She recommends two per day.

maxlamb 10mo ago

The study you linked is for instant coffee, widely considered the least healthy form of coffee. There is no study showing filtered coffee has negative health effects for most people, actually the opposite: https://www.health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy/whats-the-healthiest-way-to-brew-coffee https://www.health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy/whats-the-hea...

alimw 10mo ago

> I only did a postgraduate degree This confuses me. Aren't all the best degrees postgraduate degrees?