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It's extremely easy to convert HTML/CSS to a PDF with the print to PDF feature of the browser. All papers should be in HTML/CSS or Tex then just simply convert

It's extremely easy to convert HTML/CSS to a PDF with the print to PDF feature of the browser. All papers should be in HTML/CSS or Tex then just simply converted to PDF. Why are we even talking about this?

tefkah 10mo ago
What are you talking about? No one’s writing their paper in HTML. The problem is having the submissions be in TeX and converting that to HTML, when the only output has been PDF for so long. The problem isn’t converting HTML to PDF, it’s making available a giant portion of TeX/pdf only papers in HTML. If you’re arguing that maybe TeX then shouldn’t be the source format for papers then I agree, but other than Typst (which also isn’t perfect about HTML output yet) there aren’t that many widely accepted/used authoring formats for physics/math papers, which is what ArXiV primarily hosts.
- teddy-smith 9mo ago
  This is what I'm talking about. HTML/CSS is more powerful than PDF or TEX. https://csszengarden.com/ https://csszengarden.com/
nkrisc 10mo ago
So, uh, where do the HTML versions of the papers come from?
- teddy-smith 9mo ago
  Ground truth.
  - nkrisc 9mo ago
    What do you mean by that? That researchers should be authoring their papers in HTML?
benatkin 10mo ago
It's easy to convert PDF to HTML/CSS, with similar results. Either way it gets shoehorned.
ekjhgkejhgk 10mo ago
LOL what. You're either trolling, or you've never written a paper in your life.
- teddy-smith 9mo ago
  It sounds like you might not understand the power of modern HTML/CSS.
carlosjobim 10mo ago
Except you can't have page breaks, three links in a row, anchor links.
- teddy-smith 9mo ago
  @media print { .page, .page-break { break-after: page; } }
  - carlosjobim 9mo ago
    It doesn't function in real use, it's just theoretical.
    - teddy-smith 9mo ago
      https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/CSS/Reference/Properties/break-after https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/CSS/Reference/P... Literally part of Mozilla's docs.
      - carlosjobim 9mo ago
        That's theory. Can you send me a link to any html file where this actually works? It's a problem I'd love to have solved. Edit to clarify: The break-after property works with the worthless print dialogues, but doesn't function with "Export to PDF", which is what most people will want to use.
crazygringo 9mo ago
Have you ever written a paper for publication? HTML doesn't support the necessary features. Citations in various formats, footnotes, references to automatically numbered figures and tables, I could go on and on. HTML could certainly be extended to support those, but it hasn't been. That's why we're talking about this.
- teddy-smith 9mo ago
  Come on are you serious? HTML/CSS is more powerful than TEX or PDF. https://csszengarden.com/ https://csszengarden.com/
  - crazygringo 9mo ago
    Did you fully read my comment? Please point me to where HTML/CSS provide the features I listed. It doesn't really matter if HTML/CSS is more powerful at a hundred other layout things, if it doesn't provide the absolute necessary features for papers.
    - teddy-smith 9mo ago
      Citations in various formats, > https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTML/Reference/Elements/cite https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTML/Reference/... > https://codepen.io/tag/citation https://codepen.io/tag/citation footnotes >https://codepen.io/SitePoint/pen/QbMgvY https://codepen.io/SitePoint/pen/QbMgvY references to automatically numbered figures and tables > https://stackoverflow.com/questions/25869906/table-auto-numbering-using-css https://stackoverflow.com/questions/25869906/table-auto-numb...\ > https://codepen.io/MikeKelley/pen/GpXmEd https://codepen.io/MikeKelley/pen/GpXmEd
      - crazygringo 9mo ago
        I don't think you understand. Citations need to generate reference lists. Footnotes require automatic placement at the bottom of each page. Your examples of numbered tables are numbering the rows, not the tables. And figure numbers need to be referenced in the text. None of what you're pointing to does what academic papers need. Why are you trying to push this agenda?

tefkah 10mo ago

What are you talking about? No one’s writing their paper in HTML. The problem is having the submissions be in TeX and converting that to HTML, when the only output has been PDF for so long. The problem isn’t converting HTML to PDF, it’s making available a giant portion of TeX/pdf only papers in HTML. If you’re arguing that maybe TeX then shouldn’t be the source format for papers then I agree, but other than Typst (which also isn’t perfect about HTML output yet) there aren’t that many widely accepted/used authoring formats for physics/math papers, which is what ArXiV primarily hosts.

teddy-smith 9mo ago
This is what I'm talking about. HTML/CSS is more powerful than PDF or TEX. https://csszengarden.com/ https://csszengarden.com/

nkrisc 10mo ago

So, uh, where do the HTML versions of the papers come from?

teddy-smith 9mo ago
Ground truth.
- nkrisc 9mo ago
  What do you mean by that? That researchers should be authoring their papers in HTML?

benatkin 10mo ago

It's easy to convert PDF to HTML/CSS, with similar results. Either way it gets shoehorned.

ekjhgkejhgk 10mo ago

LOL what. You're either trolling, or you've never written a paper in your life.

teddy-smith 9mo ago
It sounds like you might not understand the power of modern HTML/CSS.

carlosjobim 10mo ago

Except you can't have page breaks, three links in a row, anchor links.

teddy-smith 9mo ago
@media print { .page, .page-break { break-after: page; } }
- carlosjobim 9mo ago
  It doesn't function in real use, it's just theoretical.
  - teddy-smith 9mo ago
    https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/CSS/Reference/Properties/break-after https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/CSS/Reference/P... Literally part of Mozilla's docs.
    - carlosjobim 9mo ago
      That's theory. Can you send me a link to any html file where this actually works? It's a problem I'd love to have solved. Edit to clarify: The break-after property works with the worthless print dialogues, but doesn't function with "Export to PDF", which is what most people will want to use.

crazygringo 9mo ago

Have you ever written a paper for publication? HTML doesn't support the necessary features. Citations in various formats, footnotes, references to automatically numbered figures and tables, I could go on and on. HTML could certainly be extended to support those, but it hasn't been. That's why we're talking about this.

teddy-smith 9mo ago
Come on are you serious? HTML/CSS is more powerful than TEX or PDF. https://csszengarden.com/ https://csszengarden.com/
- crazygringo 9mo ago
  Did you fully read my comment? Please point me to where HTML/CSS provide the features I listed. It doesn't really matter if HTML/CSS is more powerful at a hundred other layout things, if it doesn't provide the absolute necessary features for papers.
  - teddy-smith 9mo ago
    Citations in various formats, > https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTML/Reference/Elements/cite https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTML/Reference/... > https://codepen.io/tag/citation https://codepen.io/tag/citation footnotes >https://codepen.io/SitePoint/pen/QbMgvY https://codepen.io/SitePoint/pen/QbMgvY references to automatically numbered figures and tables > https://stackoverflow.com/questions/25869906/table-auto-numbering-using-css https://stackoverflow.com/questions/25869906/table-auto-numb...\ > https://codepen.io/MikeKelley/pen/GpXmEd https://codepen.io/MikeKelley/pen/GpXmEd
    - crazygringo 9mo ago
      I don't think you understand. Citations need to generate reference lists. Footnotes require automatic placement at the bottom of each page. Your examples of numbered tables are numbering the rows, not the tables. And figure numbers need to be referenced in the text. None of what you're pointing to does what academic papers need. Why are you trying to push this agenda?