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I think I understand what you mean. You're saying that relative to the 'typical individual', autistic brains weigh sensory inputs more heavily than their inter

I think I understand what you mean. You're saying that relative to the 'typical individual', autistic brains weigh sensory inputs more heavily than their internal model. And that in schizotypal brains, relative to the 'typical individual', the internal model is weighed more heavily than the sensory input, right? I don't know much about this area, so I can't comment on the correctness. However, I think we should be cautious in saying 'over-weigh' and 'under-weigh' because I really do think that there may be a real normative undertone when we say 'over-weigh'. I think it needlessly elevates what the typical individual experiences into what we should consider to be the norm and, by implicit extension, the 'correct way' of doing cognition. I don't say this to try to undermine the challenges by people with autism or schizotypy. However, I think it's also fair to say that if we consider what the 'typical' person really is and how the 'typical' person really acts, they frequently do a lot of illogical and --- simply-put --- 'crazy' things.

WJW 10mo ago
Isn't "what the typical individual experiences" pretty much the definition of "normal"? Whether "normal" is also "correct" is a completely separate question. There are plenty of fields where the behavior of the typical person is also widely perceived to be incorrect, like personal finance or exercise routines.
coldtea 10mo ago
>However, I think we should be cautious in saying 'over-weigh' and 'under-weigh' because I really do think that there may be a real normative undertone when we say 'over-weigh'. I think it needlessly elevates what the typical individual experiences into what we should consider to be the norm and, by implicit extension, the 'correct way' of doing cognition. No biggie, there's a real normative undertone to the world in general too. Norm itself means "what the majority does" or the socially (i.e. majority) accepted yardstick ("norma" in latin was a literal yardstick-like tool). It's not about the typical person _always_ doing things in a better way, or the autistic person always doing things differently. It's about the distribution of typical vs atypical behavior. So, it's not very useful to characterize such atypical behavior better or worse based on absolute moral or technical judgement. Morality changes over time, cultures, and even social groups, to a bigger or smaller degree. If, however, we use "degree of comformity with majority behaviors/expectations" as the measurement, autistics do perform worse on that.
- kelseyfrog 10mo ago
  Norm is descriptive. Normative is prescriptive. Knowing the difference is important to understanding and empathizing with the person you replied to.
  - coldtea 10mo ago
    Normative is just the adjective form of "related to norm" - can still be perfectly descriptive in use. The difference you allude do is more about the practical enforcement of a norm (or lack thereof), than the kind of the part of speech use to refer to it. I 100% understand and empathize, doesn't mean I agree.
    - kelseyfrog 10mo ago
      > Normative is just the adjective form of "related to norm" You might want to recheck the definition of normative. Yours is a non-standard usage and you will be misunderstood if you continue to use it that way. Norm is is, Normative is ought. > Normative: pertaining to giving directives or rules > Synonyms: prescriptive
      - jeltz 10mo ago
        No. Both definitions are correct. Don't tell people to recheck without first doing so yourself. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/normative https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/normative
        kelseyfrog 10mo ago
        Literally false.
        jeltz 10mo ago
        It is fine if you disagree with Marriam Webster, but maybe chill a bit with your attitude.
heyjamesknight 10mo ago
The center of the normal ditribution is “normal” or “normative.” That’s where the term comes from. It’s like saying we shouldn’t call immigrants “aliens” because that conjures images of space. Where do you think the term comes from?

WJW 10mo ago

Isn't "what the typical individual experiences" pretty much the definition of "normal"? Whether "normal" is also "correct" is a completely separate question. There are plenty of fields where the behavior of the typical person is also widely perceived to be incorrect, like personal finance or exercise routines.

coldtea 10mo ago

>However, I think we should be cautious in saying 'over-weigh' and 'under-weigh' because I really do think that there may be a real normative undertone when we say 'over-weigh'. I think it needlessly elevates what the typical individual experiences into what we should consider to be the norm and, by implicit extension, the 'correct way' of doing cognition. No biggie, there's a real normative undertone to the world in general too. Norm itself means "what the majority does" or the socially (i.e. majority) accepted yardstick ("norma" in latin was a literal yardstick-like tool). It's not about the typical person _always_ doing things in a better way, or the autistic person always doing things differently. It's about the distribution of typical vs atypical behavior. So, it's not very useful to characterize such atypical behavior better or worse based on absolute moral or technical judgement. Morality changes over time, cultures, and even social groups, to a bigger or smaller degree. If, however, we use "degree of comformity with majority behaviors/expectations" as the measurement, autistics do perform worse on that.

kelseyfrog 10mo ago
Norm is descriptive. Normative is prescriptive. Knowing the difference is important to understanding and empathizing with the person you replied to.
- coldtea 10mo ago
  Normative is just the adjective form of "related to norm" - can still be perfectly descriptive in use. The difference you allude do is more about the practical enforcement of a norm (or lack thereof), than the kind of the part of speech use to refer to it. I 100% understand and empathize, doesn't mean I agree.
  - kelseyfrog 10mo ago
    > Normative is just the adjective form of "related to norm" You might want to recheck the definition of normative. Yours is a non-standard usage and you will be misunderstood if you continue to use it that way. Norm is is, Normative is ought. > Normative: pertaining to giving directives or rules > Synonyms: prescriptive
    - jeltz 10mo ago
      No. Both definitions are correct. Don't tell people to recheck without first doing so yourself. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/normative https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/normative
      - kelseyfrog 10mo ago
        Literally false.
        jeltz 10mo ago
        It is fine if you disagree with Marriam Webster, but maybe chill a bit with your attitude.

heyjamesknight 10mo ago

The center of the normal ditribution is “normal” or “normative.” That’s where the term comes from. It’s like saying we shouldn’t call immigrants “aliens” because that conjures images of space. Where do you think the term comes from?